What to start with for exploring something semi-modular/patchable?

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Looking for a bit of advice on where/how to jump in with (probably) something semi-modular.

I’m mostly a guitar/bass player that got more into electronic music / synthesis a couple of years ago. I’ve been happily learning the ropes on a Minilogue XD + Ableton + soft synths.

As I’ve gotten more into it, I’ve figured out a couple of things:

  1. Trying out someone else’s modular system was one of the most fun musical experiences I’ve had in years. Just the ability to not be limited by a fixed architecture was really eye opening, as well as really being able to see/hear exactly what was going on.

  2. I hate anything that involves using a computer (I work at a screen 8 hours a day 5 days a week, I’d rather just step away from it entirely when I’m making music). I tried out VCV rack for a bit, and just didn’t enjoy the process at all.

  3. I’m just doing this for fun/relaxation, it’s more about the experimentation, jamming and live sounds than worrying about perfecting completed tracks.

So I’d really like to try that side of things out a bit more, and semi-modular/patachable seems like it might be a good starting point. Going full modular seems a bit daunting (since I don’t have a firm idea of what I want/need, other than a starting point to explore and build out from), and also seems very expensive, so going with something semi-modular that’s had a lot of thought already put into it seems like the right way to go.

Few things which look appealing include:

  • Grandmother/Matriarch - both seem to offer plenty of patching, and a nice way of interfacing with other things in future. Heard mixed things about quality and bugs in firmware though (plus recent Moog acquisition shenanigans).
  • Moog Sound Studio trio (Mother 32 + DFAM + Subharmonicon) - heard some lovely sounds from this combo, but doesn’t seem that popular, which makes me wonder whether it’s not the best combination, or is more limited than it looks.
  • Intellijel Cascadia - looks like you get a lot for your money, but quite new, so don’t have a good feel for all that it’s capable of.
  • Pulsar 23 - seems to invite exploration, though maybe less standard and more of a separate instrument than other things (though I’ve got a Lyra-8 and absolutely love it).
  • Make Noise Shared System - seems to be a lot of love for this, but seems costly and hard to get hold of.
  • Doepfer Starter/Basic system of some sort - heard that it’s not necessarily the best or most interesting collection of modules to start with, and also would be too tempting to go fully into modular from there.

I’ve got a reasonable budget set aside for this, but I’ve only got a small amount of physical space, so size is a serious consideration (and also a reason I was looking for something more all-in-one rather than a collection of small boxes or full modular).

I’m mostly into producing ambient/drone/chilled music, more textural than harsh/percussive I guess, in case that suggests one direction over another.

Any thoughts/suggestions of a direction to start with (or avoid) would be most welcome.

#2

I’m not sure I have a recommendation, but I have a question that may be useful (or help produce a better recommendation).

You mention having a Lyra-8 and being into producing ambient/drone/chilled music. When I think of the Lyra, it’s a great candidate for the first two and can be sort of chill (at times, in moderation). I realized it is a fixed architecture, but maybe you could elaborate more on what you’re looking for from this semi-modular system that the Lyra can’t/doesn’t provide?

(Edit: This is not a “focus on what you already have” response – I hate these. It’s just the suggestions you offer cover a fairly wide range, and I’m trying to better determine what you’re searching for from the experience.)

#3

Think about the sound you seek and start there.

My ears, and something you didn’t mention – The Taiga. Another thing nice about that besides price is it is reasonable useful in a generic sense, so you can build on that easily enough.

Taiga thread

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#4

How much?

I don’t know of something semi-modular I can enthusiastically recommend. The ones I’ve had experience with, and others I’ve followed through demos and threads of user experiences, seem underwhelming to me. Intellijel Cascadia might be the exception, but I have no direct experience with it.

I hear you on not wanting to use the computer, because I feel the same, but modular can be an expensive way to learn a lesson, so I would suggest that you spend at least a couple of weeks with a fixed VCVRack rack. Think of it as earning your real hardware. I hated it when I first tried it, but I returned to it while designing something for students, and while I still don’t intend to visit it regularly, the process of working with it for a small fixed task was not bad. I designed a “starter rack for those considering modular”, detailed here.

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#5

I appreciate the non-“focus on what you have” response :slight_smile:

I guess the reason the suggestions I posted are pretty broad is that I’m not really after a specific sound or bit of functionality, but looking more for something that offers more exploration and more of a learning experience (especially around sound design).

I also appreciate something with limitations, as working with them is a big part of why I enjoy hardware (Ableton/VCV just give me way too much to work with for my liking).

What I love about the Lyra-8 is that it really feels like its own standalone instrument, which is a lot of fun to play. The only time I get frustrated with it is when I have a particular sound in mind that I’m deliberately trying to create/tweak (e.g. sometimes I’d love to be able to filter individual voices on it, or apply different effects to each, or apply a different envelope than the fixed fast/slow ones). Being able to sequence the oscillators would also be nice.

Synthesised percussion is also something I’m keen to explore more (so far I’ve just used Ableton to program drums). Likewise for more generative music - since I’m primarly a bassist (and a bad guitarist), I really enjoying setting up something that loops/changes while playing bass/guitar parts on top.

So I guess in summary, I’m definitely happy with what I have and not trying to work around any limitations, but more interested in learning more about sound design, and in trying out styles/genres/sounds that are less part of my standard repertoire/comfort zone.

#6

Grandmother is a pretty great springboard IMO. it’s layout is much more spaced out with proper large knobs compared to eurorack gear, it has a fantastic keybed, and can be used as a central controller for a eurorack setup down the road.

Something to think about though is if you really need multiple synths with keybeds, especially smaller synths with limited ranges. I ended up swapping out my Grandmother for a Mother 32 + Mavis to save space and I’m pretty happy with the decision! I do miss that spring reverb though…

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#7

Look into the Buchla Easel Command also.

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#8

I’m not in the US, but probably equivalent of anything up to $3000 or so?

Thanks for the link, will have a read of that tonight. I think you’re right about VCVRack before getting fully into modular, at least for trying out a few approaches.

Though full modular is probably something I’d be best off avoiding, as (knowing myself) I’m likely to go down a rabbit hole of research/planning rather than spending what little spare time I have making music…

#9

Yup, space is a big consideration in all of this, I’ve only got a pretty tiny music area (which is mostly taken up by basses/amps), so trying to keep as compact as possible.

While I love the Minilogue XD’s sounds, I’m not a fan of the keybed, kinda wish I’d gone with the module version and a keystep (to pair with other things in future). That’s something else that made me a bit hesitant about the Grandmother/Matriarch.

#10

The Moog Sound Studio is highly fun and a good platform to explore semi-modular instruments.

I bought the Mother-32, DFAM, and Subharmonicon combo, but added another Mother-32 for an extra synth voice. The whole setup is greater than the sum of its parts. With the inclusion of another drum source (i.e., TS-8S, SP-16, RD-9, etc.), full tracks can easily be created for certain genres, such as Techno.

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#11

So, it sounds like there are a few different rabbit holes you could dive down here.

Synthesised percussion is also something I’m keen to explore more (so far I’ve just used Ableton to program drums)

This would push you more toward the DFAM/Pulsar direction. There isn’t a whole lot of semi-modular percussion synthesis (beyond the fact that almost any synth can produce something percussive). It’s tricky because most people looking for percussion want multiple voices, while the semi-modular format tends to be more narrow in focus. You might look into the Czochralski cells – a fascinating-looking “drum machine/synth” that seems geared toward exploration (I have no idea on price, but probably not cheap): Czochralski cells

Likewise for more generative music - since I’m primarly a bassist (and a bad guitarist), I really enjoying setting up something that loops/changes while playing bass/guitar parts on top.

Not a lot of semi-modular systems really focus a lot on “generative” at least in the sense of something evolving/changing over time. Some of them have some random value generators, some of them can produce random sequences, but the sequencing options are generally pretty limited.

So maybe a different approach would be to look into a sequencer that offers more generative capabilities, and add voices to that? There are lots of options on the market for this fairly recently, Hapax (or the older Pyramid, which has a lot of similar capabilities), Oxi One, the Keystep Pro, etc…

(I will also add, because I am the ZOIA person, that if you would like to explore sound design and generative music, it is an excellent platform for doing so, even though it does have a screen that many people complain about. You can ignore this. I put it in parentheses for a reason. But I have produced a lot of generative music using only it.)

#12

Consider the make noise trio: 0-coast, 0-control, Strega. The set can be had for about $1200, and there are some nice three-tier stands available.

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#13

From your list this screams ‘Matriarch’ to me, it’s amazing for this. I quite often just set something fairly simple up, put the delay on, modulate the clock a bit and can happily sit there listening to it for ages. I guess that leads me to my other suggestion though, since you’ve got to really love the sound to be able to do that. I was returning to Matriarch demos for literally years before I bought one, so I knew it was a sound I wouldn’t get bored of. Most of those listed are pretty substantial purchases so I’d do a lot of listening and see which one keeps calling you back.

The Matriarch isn’t the best for percussive stuff though, since you also mention that. The envelopes are quite relaxed so won’t do proper whipcrack stuff. Which also leads me on to something… Whichever of these you get there’s the chance it’ll tempt you into full modular, so I’m not sure that’s exclusive to the Doepfer stuff. Once I got a Matriarch I was like ‘it’d be nice just to round this out with a stereo mixer… and a faster envelope… and maybe a 12db filter’. Now I’m planning 600HP systems on Modular Grid.

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#14

Behringer K2. Should cost around 200 currency units.

I previously had about 9U of Euro. I very rarely patch my Minibrute 2S (default routings do most of what I want, there aren’t enough patch options), but I almost always patch the K2 with great results.

If you can’t stand Behringer, then get one of the actual Korgs.

#15

With such a robust budget, perhaps consider the Intellijel Cascadia.

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#16

More food for thought:

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#17

If you have the budget I think cascadia is a super solid instrument but I think you will likely want a modular sequencer to pair with it pretty soon after, although there are some options for krell patches because of a quantized lfo option and the way the gates can trigger at the highest point of triangle wave lfos.

*just wanted to add that its midi converter is a step above any other semimodulars I’ve run into

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#18

That will cover all costs for 3u x 104hp, and that’s enough to be enjoyable without feeling too limited. It will also cover an Intellijel Cascadia, which is denser in layout (it is slightly larger than the Intellijel 4u 84hp palette case, but you couldn’t get all that functionality into the case, or make something comparable from scratch for that much money). Are you somewhere where you can try one? (I’m not.) There aren’t a lot of demos but what I’ve heard sounds good, and I haven’t read of any complaints (unlike with some other semi-mods).

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#19

Yeah, have been very drawn to the Pulsar demos I’ve seen (though same goes for the DFAM). The multiple voices thing is a good point, I’d not really considered that.

The Czochralski cells look incredible too, I’d not heard of those before, but will spend a bit of time taking a look later :slight_smile:

I’d not really thought about sequencers either…

Also good to know about the Zoia - I’m a big fan of Empress effects pedals (and own a few), but I’ll admit the zoia completely passed me by.

#20

For basic sequencing for experimentation, the Korg SQ-1 is a stone bargain at about $100. It will also give you two channels of MIDI to CV conversion, so you can use your Minilogue XD and whatever else you have that generates MIDI.

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