What do we mean when we say Ableton In a Box?

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

What defines Ableton in a box? I hear this expression since the dawn of Octatrack, but I’ve never heard anyone actually explain what it means.

Should this be interpreted literally as exactly Ableton but without a computer, or spiritually like Ableton but in the shape of hardware with all it brings?

If the previous, then why would we even want that?

If the latter, what’s missing in today’s ventures? Force, Live, Blackbox, Octatrack?

I’ve not been much into Ableton really, but what I do like about it is the way it works with phrases and clips and then string those together into songs, as compared to a more traditional linear workflow or a strictly pattern-based approach. For me, it really did feel like that scene from Amadeus when Mozart is by his grand piano, sheets of music all over the place, each of them complete and then part of something greater as he puts them together into the Magic Flute. I don’t much care about the synths, fx, mastering and stuff. It’s the way you can put things together, that I felt caught me.

But what is Ableton to you guys and why do we keep saying Ableton in a Box, as if it’s not available yet? What’s missing?

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#2

I think when people say Ableton in a box, I guess they’re referring to clip launching + fx, or midi tracks, audio tracks capable of one shot samples and playback of long samples+ fx.
In this sense OT comes pretty close already.

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#3

For me it would be

Ability to sample
Instruments such as synth and drum machine
Sequence into loops
Launch as clips
Apply fx

They’d be the basic essentials but also how they’re implemented

#4

In that sense the mc-707 is more ableton than the ot - the clip view reminds heavily on it.
I’d say the OT is more like an performance mixer, and for long stems.
The 707 is more clip-based, internal synth engine, fx.
Both in combination is my plan. I ordered a 707.

#5

For me, the Blackbox ticks the essentials but two -

It already:
Launches clips of massive length, as well as one shots through sequencing
Applies FX to all samples, including basic filtering and envelopes
It samples
It has polyphony for those samples
It has midi tracks
It can string all this together into not just patterns and clip launching, but also coherent structures that bind these patterns and clips together into a song

It doesn’t have -
Automation or scene transitions, which arguably adds so much to a song’s dynamics that it’s fundamental
A big inventory - it orbits around the number 16 - 16 samples, 16 patterns, 16 clips with patterns stringed together

So longer live sets, complete albums or similar, can’t be made within a single project, nor can they have the dynamics that come with automation or scene transition. Since project loading comes with glitches, stringing projects together wouldn’t fix the inventory thing either.

I do feel that 1010 will address the above, one way or another, though.

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#6

My plan as well!

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#7

My plan is:

mc707 mix out -> ot a/b in
mc707 separate outs -> ot c/d

I could feed OT cue outs into the mc707 ext in (or use a third box, a synth)
And use a pedal too on the 707.

I think those two boxes are a killer combo for small setups.

#8

Ableton means many things to many people.

For me it means synths, effects, multi-tracking.

For other people Ableton means beat matching, DJing, timestretch. I think the Octatrack is closer to this element of Ableton, with effects.

I’d personally love to see something new like Octatrack, but for various synths. I guess the Mono was that? It’d be great to see a modern take on the ‘multi-machine’ device, so we could have say, FM, Analog, Drum Machines and the like, along with some modern FX all in the one device.

Combined with the Octatrack Mkii, with OB for multi-track out on a 2nd, multi-synth device, that to me would be ‘Ableton in Two Boxes’.

#9

recording, editing, sound + fx quality of a DAW + suited for live sets

#10

I think that the only reason the OT is sometimes referred to as “Ableton in a Box” is because it can simultaneously record on multiple tracks, which is not something many (if any?) other hardware samplers can do.

Apart from that the OT is really nothing like Live or any other DAW.

#11

Sounds like an Akai Force. :wink:

#12

I think Akai force basically is supposed to be ableton in a box but not nearly as many people seem to have put their money where there mouth is. Probably cause it cost the same as live and a laptop, maybe we’ll see more adopters now the price has dropped by a third

#13

Yeah. I really like mine. There are some things i hope they add and fix soon, but even now it is a great hub for production.

Also alot of people want to do everything in one box without any compromises. And that is not possible. If you add too many features, it will eventually either slow down because of cpu, or the workflow will be too complicated and slow down the experience.

#14

…to call the octatrack an ableton in a box, means nothing but the ability to time stretch audio files…even in realtime…
since liquid audio was first seen in a daw within ableton…and first seen within a hardware sampler when the ot came up, that expression was an easy grab on what this strange music instrument is actually doing, in times where hardware was not that popular as it became nowadays again…

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#15

The Roland MC-909 (2004) could time stretch audio, so OT was by no means the first hardware sampler with this capability.

#16

…nope…timestretching capabilities, independant stretching from pitch and time, in REALTIME, was a big gamechanger, when ableton came up with it…
before that, it was always offline only…and nope, the ot was first hardware which was also capable of doing so in proper REALTIME ways…but truu, roland had also a first option to do so, around that time…

#17

not sure but as far as I heard the Force is not really suited for live performance since the limited RAM and no direct streaming from external drives !?..

#18

The turntable emulation slider on the MC-909 enables independent stretching of pitch and or BPM in real time.
The 909 was on the market 6 years before the OT.

#19

It depends on your workflow. If you come from Ableton and try to do a live set in the same way you will run into problems with sample memory. But you do have about 52 minutes of total stereo sample time. It’s better than any other hardware sampler ive ever had. Except Octatrack that could stream from the memory card. I usually makes 4 bar loops of individual parts, or make a keygroup of external synths. Then i rarely see the memory meter go up at all. Did a 15-20 min live set, and think i used about 20% of the memory.

If we take 4 bar loops as an example, in 120bpm. You can run about 397 stereo clips before the memory runs out. But if you stem out your songs into long individual tracks you will run out pretty fast i guess.

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#20

that‘s why I use it for that purpose :slightly_smiling_face: