Very quiet levels using Octatrack thru machine

[Jimbo]

Hi - I’m new here and this is my first post.

I’ve picked up loads of great tips from the forum peeps so massive thanks to all that contribute!

Been using OT, AR and AK for a few months now and am finally getting into the flow with them - OT was a real pain in the ass to figure out but I finally got there!

My problem is that I am using AR and AK via Thru Machines on my OT (Tracks 5&6). I’ve done this before quite a few times and never had a problem with volume levels, however I am now getting a really quite signal from both the AR and AK, but can’t figure out why. I basically need to turn up the AR and AK up to max and it is still coming through very quietly. I can turn the comp up to the max in AR and I get an OK signal, but surely this can’t be right?

I’ve tried the above via DIR and the levels are absolutely fine, so I know it’s not the AR or the AK.

It’s nothing to do with Amp release or anything like that on OT. The INAB and INCD are assigned correctly otherwise I wouldn’t be getting the weak signal at all.

I’ve tried switching all the units off and restarting a new project etc. but the problem still persists.

I had this working fine the other day, so I’m baffled as to why the levels are so quiet - I hope I’m just being stupid and it’s not a fault with the OT…

Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks!

[sezare56]

On thru machines if you set Vol to 12 in Amp page, the level should be the same as DIR.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for you response Sezare, much appreciated.

I have turned the amp volume up to +12 as you suggested, but it doesn’t help much. For me to match the volume a normal DIR level, I need to turn the amp page volume up to full (+63) and also turn up the AR main comp volume up from around 30, all the way up to 80 - without needing to mixing the comp settings in.

Surely there is something wrong with the routing of the Thru machine if it loses this much volume? The level on the led’s on the record section aren’t flashing red, so I guess it’s not distorting, however this could give me headroom problems in the future…anyway, so this can be worked around for the AR, but it surely shouldn’t need this much boosting?

The AK level has exactly the same problem via Thru machines, in that I have to to turn the volume of the Thru machine up all the way to +63 to match the DIR levels. Again, not a huge problem, but could give me headroom problems.

Hope that all makes sense, I wonder if anyone else has experienced this issue? Is it worth me sending the unit back to Electron to test?

Thanks again!

James

[LaughingAnimal]

Thru machines behave the same for me. Full track level and full amp volume is necessary for the thru track to equal the same as DIR on full volume. Not ideal but that’s how it has always been.

[Jimbo]

Really appreciate your feedback, at least it’s not me going mad!

I’ve only just clicked with understanding the OT’s menu system and architecture, so I thought that there was something I had missed. It actually quite simple once you get your head around it.

Have you ever had any headroom issues when routing this way?

Thanks again

[sezare56]

Sorry maybe it’s + 63. +12 is for recording headroom compensation.
You can find topics about it here.

Gain Pain

Tell me this is wrong … Please ! [Edit, yes, it probably is] The Octatrack takes your decent ‘hot’ signal It drops the level at the inputs by ~12dB It then adds 12dB of gain to the recording to get you back to the original level i’m not sure that sounds like a good plan, can anyone convince me it is ! ? It’s helping me understand why my levels are all over the place with pickup machines, but i can now see it’s the same with flex and tellingly with Thru When you put a decent signal throug…

[sezare56]

I checked. I don’t use Thru as I prefer Flex Recordings.
I have the same level as DIR with Thru and Playback Page Vol set to 63.

[avantronica]

I am not quite so sure about the claims in that ^ thread these days

I look at this one of two ways (and basically accept it for what it is)

The Volume on the Thru Machine Page is shown ‘like’ a gain, but i wonder if it’s actually all attenuation, but shown with sensible headroom on the assumption you’re using all 8 tracks

or

It’s gain equivalent to the losses experienced when the ADC converters apply (possibly) about 12dB of reduction at the inputs

Either way - in practical terms

from a new project to equate DIR to Thru meaningfully you have to do as follows (and largely as described above)

Set Dir to 108 & set Vol to Max on Thru

This either means the attenuation is zero on the thru track or the losses are restored (and noise floor boosted)

Dir does go through an AD DA stage btw

If you want to apply gain to the input, then, whether for Thru or Direct, you use the Gain shown on the Mixer page

But level parity is achieved when Dir is the Same as Track Level and Vol is Max on the Thru Track

Showing Vol as bi-polar ‘implies’ it is a gain adding parameter

The folks from Elektron have said that a lot of half-truths perpetuate on these pages, it’s best to treat speculation as just that until official confirmation is received

[Jimbo]

Thanks to you both for your input, it is valued.

Actually this is the best forum I’ve been on for real, experienced and most importantly, friendly help!

I understand what you’re saying Avantronica, this make sense to me. I have already started to adapt in a similar way, and so far today this hasn’t caused me any issues in relation to nasty audio artefacts given the gain/volume compensation I am having to apply.

Thanks to you both for your time

[Open_Mike]

Funny how pickups are same as dir, but not the thrus.
Also, possible(probable) bug where every once in awhile I switch to a pattern/part with a thru, and the level is extremely quite, way more than the normal drop. There are no parameters affecting this, happens merely by switching patterns/parts, and can be resolved by switching patterns again, then switching back… Anyone else?