A while back I was using a very old iPad with a CCK lightning adapter into the USB slot of my Digitone or Digitakt with the Eventide effects app, it was great. My iPad has been broken for a while and I need a new one, it did also have an audio jack so I was also using it as an extra synth into my Hapax seqencer with Pure Acid and the iPads audio output into my Bluebox 1010 mixer.
Anyway I have a couple of questions, I could buy an old iPad again with the audio jack and carry on just the same, but I see the new iPads donāt have audio jacks I think this would still be fine plugged straight into the Digitone or Digitakts USB port for effects, but how would I get it to be used as a synth into the Hapax sequencer as the audio jack is not on the new versions of iPad?
I see the Bluebox 1010ās USB port can act as a audio interface now, can I use that for send effects to the iPad instead of swapping USB cables between the DT and DN?
So many questions sorry.
Using the iPad for effects on my HW is so key as I donāt have any pedals and 1 iPad can have multiple effects and great for ambient.
I think you can, but that duplicates a lot of the functionality you get with the iPadā¦
Do you own such a device already? If not, you will get, in my opinion, a lot more out of an USB audio interface plus a mixer on the iPad like AUM instead. And you get around 400 currency units to spend on other things. In fact I think with some shopping around you can get a second hand IPad + audio interface for less than the cost of the bluebox.
The basic answer for iPads is: get an Audio interface. If you get one with a few ins and outs (4 of each at least) you get a very flexible system. You could even do pre and post effects chains for your hardware. Then you use a software mixer like AUM or apematrix or maybe loopy pro depending on what you want, and you can do very complex things.
With a usb hub, you could then also route the usb audio from the DT and DN to any virtual channels you create, even if you need to connect two more cables, you then increase the flexibility and potential of the system.
Disclaimer: I never used any elektron hardware, neither the bluebox, but have been using the iPad paired with hardware for live performances weekly, and therefore have a good understanding of the principles involved.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have the Bluebox 1010 mixer, but also now (I think) it now acts as an audio interface too with itās USB port.
Iāve used the iPad directly with the Digitone and Digitakt (their USB ports) and itās great with AUM and effects from Eventide for example. I was just looking at a way to not have to keep moving the USB from the iPad to another device to use the effects and route it instead.
Iām quite new to some of this, especially audio interfaces as I prefer to be DAWless as Iām just a hobbyist.
Look. If you want to avoid DAWs in my opinion you should avoid the iPad. What do you think AUM really is?
You like eventide effects? Get their space pedal. But as soon you add an iPad to the mix, you have Digital and you have Audio. To what point you can avoid having a Workstation is debatable but as soon you can load plugins and route audio, I guess you are there already.
I think you are trying to have two incompatible things at the same time. Never mind if you are a hobbyist or not. Have a real think about what are you trying to achieve and if the iPad really is the way to go.
For me the iPad is a wonderful portable powerful tool, with access (for now) to some very cheap plugins. But you have to embrace the digital or it ends up being more trouble than itās worth.
I agree. Plus, USB audio on the Bluebox was a bit of an afterthought that came in an update later. You even need a weird USB-B splitter, because it needs to be powered from the same port. I think an audio interface might be better for working with the iPad
AFAIK the Bluebox 1010 appears as a 2x2 audio interface on an iPad which doesnāt give you much flexibility for send/returns (fine for master FX though). If youāre wanting to use the iPad as a source for insert FX and the like for multiple devices then a dedicated audio interface might be best - the routing is āanalogā in the sense that you can easily keep track of what signal is going to what I/O and match up the (virtual) channels in the iPad.
I wouldnāt buy an old iPad just to have the headphone jack.
You can buy relatively cheap USB-C hubs with a headphone/line out built in.
Iām seeing options that start at $10-20.
Remember that the class-compliant audio support on Elektron boxes is 2 in/2 out (2x2).
You can run any number of synths/effects in AUM on their own channels, and the mix will go out over the DT/DNās outputs. So you may not even need that.
But youāll be limited to stereo out (though AUM can record the multi-track audio itself).
You can also use just about any class-compliant USB audio interface with an iPad now.
You just need a USB-C cable to connect it - or a USB-C hub.
The hub is my preference, since I can then power/charge the iPad, and hook up MIDI controllers or sequence other synths via USB.
One of the cheapest options for an interface with a lot of connectivity is something like the Behringer UMC1820. I think that gives you eight analog input channels and ten outputs, with the option for ADAT expansion.
But you are making compromises there, since itās not a very portable option compared to say a MOTU Ultralite Mk5.
Modular Audio Tools have the MAT 16x8 interface in development - a tiny interface specifically for the iPad.
I think theyāre hoping to ship it for around ā¬400 later this year.
And a lot of mid-range mixers - like the Mackie Onyx8/12 - are starting to include multichannel audio interfaces built in.
Be sure to check that they do multichannel audio over USB though, and not just a stereo mix in/out.
The 1010 Bluebox ends up not being a great pairing for an iPad because of that.
Oh, and keep in mind that you can only have one class-compliant interface active at a time. You canāt plug two 2x2 devices into a hub to have 4 in/4 out.
You can go as deep as you want with something like AUM.
In its default state, it feels a lot more like a digital mixer/effects rack than a DAW to me.
Eventideās plugin model seems to be selling the algorithms individually, rather than all-in-one like the Space pedal for $400.
But the Blackhole pedal is $200. The plugin is $20 - and half that when it goes on sale.
The upfront cost may high - especially if you are only buying the iPad to use for mixing/effects, and need to buy an audio interface for it as well.
But it quickly starts to pay off if that workflow suits you.
For me, it started as a way to āauditionā effects easily, and figure out what I actually wanted in my setup.
And itās ended up with me unsure about going to the trouble of buying and setting up/routing expensive pedals.
I absolutely see the value in them - and I think thereās something to be said for only having a handful of pedals at most, being selective in their use, and learning them inside and out - rather than being overwhelmed by a lot of plugins, with a lot of overlap.
Having hands-on controls for your pedals without having to map MIDI controllers etc is very valuable too.
But itās a lot of money to go down that path.
Any of the main brands have interfaces that will do the job - you just need to make sure the interface supports USB class compliant audio. My preference would be Focusrite or MOTU - it really depends on price vs how much I/O you want. That said, Iād steer clear of the Behringer interfaces - I bought UMC1820 which is a great deal on paper but returned it because the cross talk between channels was disturbingly loud.
All your devices just plug into the input channels of the interface which then plugs into the iPad. In the iPad youād add your virtual FX to the virtual channels receiving the audio from each of the input channels using an app like AUM. Then you can mix or sum the audio in the iPad and send it back out of the interface and into another device, or maintain the separate channels and send them out individually to an analog mixer for summing.
All the other suggestions are good. I will just add another one.
After some comparisons I settled on Arturiaās mini fuse 4. USB C so a direct cable to the iPad, 4 ins 4 outs, but also has 2 usb A ports which are handy to connect other hardware (like a midi keyboard) and also midi 5 pin in/output, which can be nice to sequence older hardware, or get your iPad effects controlled by older hardware.
I totally agree, and is why I use an iPad instead instead of hardware pedals (except for a zoom ms-70cdr).
What I really disagree is with the fiction that you can have an iPad on your setup and call it dawless.
I want to remain āDAWlessā if I can use that word as I use computers all day and need to switch off from that, I want to use the iPad just for effects really and assign any knob movements to any external device like the DN or DT, so there is very little Interaction. Iām newish to some to some of this, but I thought a DAW was something like Ableton with you have to heavily interactive will, which I donāt mind at the very end if I have to use for mastering a track.
This is a wonderful reply thank you! Iām not sure I understand all of it fully (thatās me though). It seems like a small separate audio interface would be goof then.
So all the (blue lines) inputs in my diagram that go into my Bluebox 1010 mixer would go into an audio interface first where the iPad is plugged into via USB and then the audio interfaces output would go into an input of the Bluebox instead?
This is kinda the keyā¦my mini battery-powered setup that I use in a duo with a friend always centered around a mixer, and incorporated an iPad as a sound source. At one point I was using the TX-6 as the mixer. But it gradually became clear that, as long as I had the iPad in the rig, it might as well be the mixer, and I replaced the TX-6 with a conventional interface (MOTU M6) and just let Aum be the brain. Much simpler, cheaper, sounds good, everything is still battery powered, and I get to have whatever digital FX I want on every sound source.
The 2i2 doesnāt offer you anything more than using the Bluebox (or DT/DN) as an interface with the iPad.
Those devices all have 2 channels in/out over USB.
An interface with two inputs means you would only be able to apply effects to one stereo instrument, two mono instruments, or a stereo mix with multiple instruments.
If you want to apply effects individually to three instruments, you will need an interface with at least three channels in. Six channels if you want stereo.
You could replace the Bluebox with an interface that has at least 6 in/2 out, doing all the mixing on the iPad.
You could use an interface that has at least 6 in/6 out - with the outputs routed into the Bluebox for mixing, if you still want to keep that in your setup.
Or, if you donāt want to be tied into using the iPad all the time, you could use a mixer that has a built-in multi-channel USB interface.
As for control/sequencing, any number of MIDI devices can be connected to the iPad via a USB hub.
So long as the DT/DN are set to USB MIDI mode, you could have the DT/DN/Hapax all hooked up to the iPad together, with AUM handling MIDI routing/filtering for soft-synth/effect control.
Yeah this sounds like what Iād like my end goal to be with a USB hub. So what would you buy if it was you setting this all up (USB hub/Audio Interface etc)?
Unfortunately, thatās where Iām going to be less help - as Iāve not got everything set up as Iād like yet.
All I have right now is an old analog mixer with no USB connectivity.
So everything is hooked up to that, with the output going into my Digitakt for sampling - using it as the interface for the iPad.
The DT, along with the other synths and MIDI controllers, are all connected to an Anker USB-C hub.
And thereās one cable from that which goes to the iPad any time I want to use it. Itās very convenient.
.
I recently picked up a TC Helicon Blender to replace the mixer, so that everything could get its own channels in AUM.
Itās a compact/affordable mixer/12x2 interface that seemed ideal - except Iām getting ground loop issues when connecting up certain instruments (like the Arturia Microfreak).
Iāve been trying to find a solution for that, to no avail.
So things are in limbo right now as I consider my options - which are looking like:
The Teenage Engineering TX-6 is a tiny 6 channel stereo mixer that acts as a 12x12 interface - and I find that very appealing. But itās also very expensive and Iāve not heard great things about the audio or build quality.
Do I go with a mid-range mixer that has a multichannel USB interface built in, like a Mackie Onyx 12? I like the idea of a mixer with an interface built in, so I donāt always need the iPad hooked up. The price is more reasonable, but that thing is huge.
Go with a mid-range audio interface like the MOTU Ultralite Mk5? Seems great, but Iām not sure if it can be used stand-alone - and it has limited hardware controls even if it can.
Wait for the MAT 16x8? Itās tailor-made for the iPad, and seems to do almost everything Iād want in an interface for that. But it doesnāt have balanced audio (nor does the TX-6) so Iām a little concerned about the potential for a ground loop after my experience with the Blender now - and who knows when itās going into production or what availability might be like.
Right, I understand that. As software developer by day, I too consider an hardware only setup sometimes.
What Iām trying to warn you , is that placing an iPad in your setup is contrary to that goal. It may seem that you can just map a few things and itās hidden away, but the truth is you will be fiddling a lot with a screen, you will have to face potential software issues, and when you least expect it you may have to āzone outā and go fiddle with the iPad to change something or fix something.
Itās certainly more flexible and cheaper (if you already have the iPad, and compared to hardware/desktop plugin prices) but an escape from screens and computer problems it is not.
That is what I ask you to reflect upon.
For me it still pays up to use the iPad, but is much less stressful to admit its a digital device and use its strengths, one of which is a high quality screen (which AUM and loopy pro use in such a manner that put a lot of hardware stuff to shame in terms of usability), than to try and make it something that it is not.
No, the iPad and audio interface would REPLACE the bluebox. They would do what the bluebox does, just with a lot more flexibility, because you can then use all the plugins available as an AUv3.
