Using a MIDI pedal to change patterns

Hi guys, first post here, I’m wondering if anyone can help me with some information on my Model:Samples. I’m looking to use the M:S live but I need to be able to change patterns via a MIDI footswitch.

There are two questions I suppose: 1. Is it possible to go up and down the patterns via a MIDI message?

  1. Is this a suitable pedal for the job? https://www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/midi-baby-3

Thanks very much for any responses. I’d love to use this (my first Elektron) live. Here’s hoping.

Welcome to the forum!

The M:S, like all the Elektron gear, can switch to a specific pattern in response to a MIDI Program Change message. There is no MIDI message for ‘next’ or ‘previous’ pattern, so the controlling device would need to determine what the next message would be.

The description of the MIDI Baby 3 claims that it can send MIDI Program Change messages, so it would be at least of some use. However the documentation does not seem to be complete yet, and the very simple hardware configuration suggests that it may not be the most flexible MIDI foot pedal.

As a first step, I suggest that you think about exactly what you want your pedal to do in conjunction with the M:S, and then see what pedals provide the necessary features.

For example, do you simply want to step through the M:S patterns in order, or go through them in a particular order, or control start and stop of the sequencer too?

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You could always hook a small basic midi processor in the chain then go like this :

At start you get an init value of you choice for first pattern.
This value is stored in a variable.
You choose 2 messages on your footswitch that will be up and down. ( could be any cc whatever…)
When you click on “down” the midi processor substract 1 to the stored value and send pchg command with the result and stores new value.
Same goes for up command, it’ll add 1 to the stored value. And stores the new one after sending.

Cost is 120 euros approx.

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Thank you for the response. It seems what I am after may well be more complicated than I first thought.

My set up is two piece band where we will both be playing guitar and bass so will not have hands free. Since there is no song mode on the M:S, one method we looked at was messing around between songs chaining the patterns together then just letting it run, but this seems a bit flat, time consuming and also a little risky if we input the order incorrectly.

Ideally, as I mentioned, I would have liked to simply set up a few patterns for each song in our set and then we could be more creative as to when exactly we wished to switch to another section of the song, simply hitting a footswitch to go forwards (or back). Thank you for explaining that this is in fact not possible. The MIDI pedal I picked out was based on my false assumption of only needing a down/up selector, and I was trying to select something as portable as possible. So is it more a case that I can select only one of the 16 patterns and therefore would need a larger, more complex MIDI pedal capable of scrolling through commands then clicking to execute the change?

I was hoping to get something a lot smaller than something like the FCB1010, but if this is the best road to go, I’ll have to bite the bullet on size in order to get full live functionality.

Thank you, any particular one you would recommend? I’ll have a look into it.

It is possible, with an appropriately specified MIDI pedal, to select ‘next’ and ‘previous’ patterns. Because of the lack of available documentation, it is not yet possible to determine whether the MIDI Baby 3 can do it.

The Morningstar MC6 or Source Audio Soleman, for example, have well-known capabilities and can probably do what you have so far asked.

But, as I suggested before, it would be best if you “think about exactly what you want your pedal to do in conjunction with the M:S, and then see what pedals provide the necessary features”.

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Thanks again. I do know exactly what I want the pedal to ‘do’, just not in terms of specific midi commands etc since I was looking for advice on that side. I just want the pedal to either move to the next pattern or go back a pattern when I click the pedal. I’m happy to press play on the machine itself to get it started, so no need for stop start etc, merely pattern switching.

It seems like you were saying that it isn’t so simple as ‘next’ or ‘previous’ but rather more about setting up the MIDI pedal to save a set of commands which correspond to the selection of patterns 1-16, then making the ‘next’ and ‘previous’ buttons simply be commands to scroll up/down.

I am fairly new to MIDI controllers as you tell, and all I gleaned from the manual was how to select the MIDI channel which corresponds to ‘program change’. I’m still a little confused as to the specifics of it and which commands I should be sending etc.

OK!

The M:S changes pattern in response to MIDI Program Change messages. These messages include a MIDI channel number (so that the message is acted upon only by devices that are listening on that channel) and a single pattern number in the range from 0 to 127. Because M:S only has 96 patterns, it only acts if the value in the message is between 0 and 95. Value 0 corresponds to pattern A01 and value 95 corresponds to pattern F16 on the M:S.

There is no MIDI message for ‘next’ pattern (or ‘previous’ pattern). So for a footswitch to perform that function, it needs to remember what value corresponds to the current pattern and needs to be able to add (or subtract) one from that number in order to send a new Program Change message with the value for the ‘next’ (or ‘previous’) pattern.

Some MIDI foot pedals/controllers cannot do that. Some can be set up to do that. The MIDI Baby 3 more than likely can, but it’s not explicitly stated in the online documentation. The best way to find out would be to ask the manufacturer.

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Brilliant, thank you. That makes it crystal clear! Much appreciated.

Just because I just programmed my mc6 for that :

You have a pc scroll up/down function with min max ! Exactly what you are looking for…