Unwanted pattern/project saving with unwanted sound/sample changes (Midi issue)

You should save pattern 3 to project using the lefthand imp/expot button, this will save only the pattern selected to the project . You would then either reload the project to clear the other patterns or func+no to return them to the temp save point (if you have made one) or the original save point if you hav’nt.
The best idea imo is to temp save anything you like the sound of and as soon as you know you want to keep it,save it to project. Saving the whole project in one go has its uses but if you are not careful you will save things in states that cant be undone.

2 Likes

To me this makes sense as a hierarchy of saving levels, project being the highest level. For example on AR if I save my project before I save some kits when I reload the project the kits don’t have those changes, because I saved the project before saving kits, not after. If I save the kits then save the project the project is saved with the saved kits. I like the way this works…

At least one thing could be emphasized in DT manual: that the sound modifications (parameters) are stored on ongoing basis in RAM in PLAY mode and reloaded after DT is turned on after turning off even without saving…

I thought that only those changes, which are recorded with RECORD button on (either in Grid mode or in Live recording mode) and subsequently were saved in Pattern and in Project, are really saved and appear after device is turned on again.

I know that everything this may be clear to experienced Elektron users, as this approach may be common in all devices. But for new user it is quite unclear (and I have tried to read manual carefully and watched nearly all good video tutorials).
I do not see many parallels with saving files in computers (PC or MAC), as there I can have more clear control, what will be saved and what can be undone. Furthermore DT has many (useful) shortcuts, but if you hit them by mistake (which can easily happen, when trying to do things quickly), it can lead to completely unwanted behavior…

Elektrons have a fascinating way of at first seeming backwards and just messed up how things work. After some time though the logic starts to click more and more until it actually starts seeming like a very well thought out, highly functional, and flexible way to go… That’s what happened to me anyway… Things that didn’t make sense to me at first later on seem brilliant…

Nothing is actually saved when turning the machine off. You will lose valuable work on projects if you think anything is auto saved when the machine is turned off.

If you must compare it to a computer, turning the dt off is like putting your computer to sleep. When you turn it back on it will awaken in the same state is was when it was turned off.

Also review page 14 of the digitakt manual. Most of what’s been explained came from there. Including the behavior of the machine when switched off and on.

1 Like

It could be emphasized and more clear but it’s pretty much the first thing in the manual after the architecture diagram and a blip about the plus drive…

Then this later:

1 Like

IMHO it’s very missleading how Elektron uses the word “save”, because everyone and my grandma associates “save” with writing to the disc/+drive (which is not the case unless you use “save project”). The none volatile RAM (keeps state when main power is off) is a nice feature, but when the machine crashes or the battery fails or you just switch to another project thinking you had called save pattern previously and that’s enough, bad news will await you.

1 Like

Very first page of DT Manual (before Table of Content):
“RESTART
• For a complete restart of the Digitakt, wait for at least 30 seconds after turning it off before turning it on again.”

So, everybody can assume that after turning Digitakt off nothing stays in RAM and after the device is turned on again the last opened project is reloaded from the last (manually) saved status… This, what I understand, restart is…

Elektron could create in manual completely separate chapter to explain and summarize all types of savings of projects, patterns, tracks, sequencer, etc…

Sorry, no. The RAM holds its content. It is NVRAM, a special kind of RAM, which is powered by a battery when main power is off. There is no reload phase. Everything is there as you left it.

The 30 seconds hint is for parts of the electronics to discharge (otherwise it may not turn on correctly). Just search the forum for threads about power-up problems.

When you really want to clear the RAM you can perform an EMPTY RESET (accessible via the startup menu when holding [FUNC] while turning the machine on).

1 Like

I’m just trying to help and point out relevant information in the manual that might help you, not argue about semantics or defend the manual… It is what it is, we’re here to help…

2 Likes

Sooo, the nauts here can help you understand how the machine works if you wish, if you have concerns about the manual you can write to Elektron through support here:

And we have a thread created by the Elektron technical writer here:


:slight_smile:

1 Like

Thanks all for your feedback and support. I understand that there must be reasons why the system is technically set up in this way and I am perfectly fine with it. Now I will take care to avoid unwanted situations…
Just I wanted to point out that actual manual do not describe this matter precisely and could be confusing to new user… I have several analog synths, keyboards, guitars, this is my first hardware sampler / drum machine… It is great and very creative - even for acoustic or progressive rock music, which I like more than techno, house, ambient etc., which is probably the main group of Elektron users…

1 Like

Hi. I’ve been working with Digitakt for two years now, and this is DEFINITELY a problem. The digitakt doesn’t necessarily ‘save’ your changes, but it ‘holds’ them.

People have argued this with me, but I am right. The Digitakt keeps all changes you do to any track, any sound, and any parameter, until you reload.

This is a horrible design flaw. If you are jamming with your tracks, and you discover a change that you want to keep, you cannot simply save. If you save at that point, the Digitakt will save ALL changes to ALL parameters that you have made to ANY track or pattern, since opening. If you opened the file days ago, Digitakt will still have all changes you may have made.

So to actually save a change in this case, you must RELOAD your program, re-perform the change, and THEN save.

I have accidently saved SO MANY things. I just tried performing but the bass was gone, because the Digi had saved green mutes. I am super frustrated right now. This just seems so counter-intuitive.

But I have a solution: Elektron should offer an option called ‘Revert to Save’. Here it is: Whenever a user switches Patterns, the prior pattern is reset to the saved position. That way we can actually PLAY the Digitakt. Basically, I am saying that a ‘Function+No’ command be applied whenever you switch patterns.

As it is, I don’t DARE change parameters for improvising. If I do, I might accidently save the changes later. This absolutely cripples the Digitakt for live jamming. You have to be VERY safe with it, and not change stuff unless you have to This is really unfortunate for such a powerful box. I basically relegate it to a pre-programmed playback box. I need the freedom to fuck it up without worrying that those changes will stick! When I demolish Pattern 1 with a Bit Crusher, and then switch to Pattern 2, I need to be able to return to Pattern 1 again in it’s original state! But as it is, the Pattern 1 will STAY bit-crushed, until I actually reload the ENTIRE PROGRAM.

SUPER NOT COOL ELEKTRON

Just to reinforce what you said, EVERYTHING you said is correct on here. When others disagree they often delve into semantics, arguing that it’s not ACTUALLY saving. Whatever. That is why I began calling it ‘holding’. It ‘holds’ everything and every change, until you ‘Reload’. So it’s not ‘saving’. But that’s not ‘helping.’

We need a ‘revert to save’ feature.

Wish I had found this thread a year ago!

This is why we need a ‘revert to save’ function. Whenever you switch a pattern, the prior pattern should be reset. That way you could be confident that when you wanted to save something, you didn’t have to stress about saving things from prior alterations “in states that can’t be undone.”

Good name, BTW.

I mostly like the way it is, my main gripe is that when saving patterns to project it should also include new samples and sounds. At the moment the only way to save new samples and sounds added to the ram is to do a whole project save which obviously saves every other change in the project.
My advise to you would be change your process, try to organise samples and sounds at the beginning of a session and then save the whole project. Then get into the habit of saving individual patterns to project every time you make a change you like, this way you wont overwrite anything by mistake and if you need to get back to your safe save you can reload the whole project.

I am so tired of being surprised in a negative way by this box. These accidental saves happen. Also, the recent update severely glitched two of my songs. Another time when composing one piece, the filter settings kept resetting even despite erasing and replacing the samples multiple times. Never did figure that one out. I rewrote the entire part from scratch, and broke it into two separate parts (patterns). The glitch hasn’t happened since, probably from freeing memory (it allowed less conditional triggers). That is three times that this device utterly failed.
That is approaching a handful of times, and now my faith in this thing is tenuous at this point. It is only tenuous because I need to have some faith at all. Instruments should not glitch. As a basic starting rule to society, hardware instruments should not glitch.

I am very frustrated right now. I have no one in my actual world who could possibly understand the frustration with twenty conditional triggers resetting their filter and overdrive settings despite you meticulously setting them repeatedly. Or meticulously programming an hour of music, only to have parts get skipped like a broken record when recording. Or like today, when I perform for a tiny room, and the bass is missing. I would NEVER intentionally save my MIDI tracks out. It is definitional user error, I know. But it comes from the problem eluded to in this thread. It actually happened ANOTHER time, now that I think of it, but thank goodness no one else was there to hear it. This is a real problem.
I am writing this because I am trying to return to composing (actually, decomposing, because I used too many samples and need to pull back!), and I am so burnt and upset by this afternoon. It makes me fear ever using mutes again. The funny thing was, when I turned the bass back on, I pressed Func+No to experiment, and the Mutes did not re-activate. I reloaded the program, and the mutes were back.

There absolutely should be a ‘revert to save’ function as I described in this thread. If you read this far, thank you. I am frustrated. I need to continue working. That is the only way forward.

Some how, my old message got stuck in the reply box, and magically stayed here for me to enter weeks later! That’s pretty cool. But the recent message is actually from weeks ago. This message is back on the correct present time frame.

Wait, is there is way to save only one pattern at a time? I am working with an entire set list within my program. I either save the entire program, or I reload an entire program. That is why if I need to make changes to a pattern, I have to reload the entire program, and THEN make the changes, and then save. Otherwise I am saving all changes made since the previous open.

This is why there should be a revert to save feature.

I have not encountered, in two years of extremely involved work with this box, any place to save the Pattern Only.

You suggest saving when you make changes that you like, but I am suggesting that this is NOT a problem. There is LITERALLY no problem saving changes that you like.

Again, there is NO problem with saving changes you like. But if I do this, I am also saving ANY prior changes to ALL patterns that occured since the last load. If this was a week ago, then Digitakt will save ALL changes performed in the last week. It holds EVERYTHING.
There is NO problem with losing changes that you like.

The problem is that Digitake keeps ALL changes, including those you didn’t want to keep.

Save pattern to project saves the currently selected pattern in its current state to the project, press imp/export to open window.
Save whole project saves the project ram list and all patterns in their current state.
Reload project takes you back to the point you last project saved.
Quick save (func+yes) allows a point of return via func+no to reload and will be retained untill the project is reloaded.