TS vs TRS

Elektron Gear Other Elektron Gear
#1

I’m wanting to tighten up my rigs cable assortment.
I have an OT, AK, RTYM all going in and out of a mackie mixer, with a few FX on sends.

Cables are something I’ve given little thought too. I have a tone and just use what I have to make it all work. Yet I was reading about AK individual outs vs stereo outs and get confused.

I generally use the stereo outs from the RYTM, AK, and RYTM with the occasional individual outs.

What cables are ideal for stereo outs from these 3 devices, and what cables are ideal for the individual outs?

Thanks.

#2

Also, is there any benefit going 1/4 inch out from an electron device to an xlr input of a mixer?

#3

TS are usually mono. Two of these make stereo :wink:

TRS connectors can be either for stereo or for balanced mono. There are TRS cables that split into two mono TS (for stereo) and others that have another TRS or XLR at the end, which is for balanced mono signals.

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#4

If you’re not using cables much more than 3 metres long and don’t have vast snakes of dozens of cables running everywhere, just use standard TS cables.

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#5

@Fin25 is spot on. Balanced is great when you’re dealing with long cable runs that can be susceptible to all sorts of induced noise etc. In a smaller setup you’re unlikely to experience those issues.

#6

As my cables go near or together with power cables, in a mess of other cables, I use TRS also for short distances.
(After experiencing noise problems).
Thomann’s snake cables are a good compromise between price and quality, otherwise I always did DIY.

#7

I’d try and go through a line-in on a mixer rather than anything XLRish
A lot depends on the mixer, but XLR would usually indicate a mic input/preamp with the possibility of phantom power.

#8

I’m not a complete noob, but this area of audio is still a bit of a mystery to me.
I don’t understand balanced vs unbalance.
I have plenty of TRS cables I use to go from the individual outs of my RYTM because the way the jacks are designed.
My mixer has regular mono jacks and xlr for inputs.
Usually I run these patch cables from my OT to my mixer, the ones with 2 bands, possibly tip ring sleeve, but not split, they are a single cable with the two band jacks on both sides.
I’m trying to understand the difference between all these as I might make my own cables and save money.
I just want to do it correctly

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#9

The mixer will have mic pre amps on the xlr inputs and you’ll need to drastically reduce you’re output level on whatever you plug in as the line level is much higher than a mic level otherwise you’ll just distort the mic pre. Most mixer input stages have their line inputs after the mic pre. Unless you need to use the mic pre for some reason you’re much better off using the line inputs for line level signals

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#10

I do know that my 1/4 inch gold 2band jacks to XLR I use for my speakers get way more volume than other cables

#11

Excellent. I have a mackie 1624vlz4.
Would you say there’s any benefit to using the xlr preamps to get sone extra distorted drive?

#12

Usually TS are mono unbalanced. You can tell because there are only two contacts (the metal on each side of the little black ring/line thing).

TRS connectors for balanced mono signals have 3 contacts (the metal between each ring/line thing on the connector). The extra contact is there because there’s a ground wire
circuit for noise reduction.

XLR can either be used for mic level or mono balanced line level signals, so be careful not to put a line signal into a mic input. XLR also has 3 contacts (3 holes in the connector), so in the case of balanced mono, there’s also a ground circuit.

Balanced is good for noise reduction. You often don’t need it, but it can help reduce noise, depending on environmental factors, cable length, power sources, etc.

Edit: I’m leaving my post unedited so replies make sense when reading the thread. @Bunker kindly pointed out that the ground does not help with noise reduction. There is a ground wire, but the third contact is for phase cancellation, which reduces noise.

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#13

You could try it I guess? Not sure how it’ll sound as most mic pres aren’t designed to be overdriven so it may not be a pleasant or useful distortion.

#14

A picture is worth a thousand words. A balanced signal contains two copies of the same signal in opposite phases :

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#15

The ground conductor isn’t there to reduce noise. The noise reduction comes from phase cancellation of the noise between the ‘hot’ and ‘cold’ conductors.

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#16

Beat me to it! Great visualisation

@bodymechanics. When two signals of opposite phase are mixed together at the exact same level they will cancel each other out. For example one way to extract a vocal from a recording would be to have the normal version recorded on track 1 then if you’ve got the instrumental mix you record that on track 2 and flip it’s phase. Now when you recombine tracks 1 and 2 the only thing you should hear is the vocal (usually with a bit of bleed) as everything else has been cancelled out.

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#17

I think it’s sinking in. So ideally I should used balanced (three connectors) to go from stereo out of the devices/synths to balanced line in on the mixer to have it grounded for noise reduction.

What about the individual outs on the AK? There are 4, do I used unbalance from AK to unbalanced line in on the mixer?

Also how is it different for the RYTM where individual outs are for two voices. Should the two ends be balanced as well, three connectors?

Also, for effects pedals on send/returns, unbalanced as well?

#18

Thank you. I always thought balanced had a noise reduction circuit, but recently a sound guy corrected me saying it was actually ground.

So, the third contact: is that ground or the noise reduction circuit?

#19

Regarding stereo outs ad balanced cables. All they have in common it’s the type of jack plug used. If you’ve got a single stereo out jack on something you wouldn’t connect that to a balanced xlr or jack input. Be definition it’s not a balanced output; the left and right signals will be on the tip and ring. If you’ve got stereo balanced outputs there will always be two output jacks.

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#20

No, it’s phase cancellation that gets rid of the noise. If you scroll up there’s a few better explanations than I can give without waffling on for ever! :joy:

The ground is still a ground you just have two signals both of opposite phases.

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