I did this in 2012/13 with ableton 7 or 8 and an APC40.
It was a lot of work. Made my own APC template. Played out with it a few times.
Conclusion. I got an octatrack. Way easier, more fun.
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Ha ha, so true.
Sometimes it nearly makes me cry with frustration. But mostly its amazing. Using it is insane!
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I’m very interested!
Can you give anymore details? Did you manage to get live buffers playing and feeding each other and so on?
Apprieciate the sentiment, but going back to the Octatrack is not an option for me. The ‘Octatrack’ part of my rig is just one part of a bigger thing, sticking an actual Octatrack in there wouldn’t work anymore.
The whole rig has 16 channels, uses 3 LaunchControl XL’s, 4 LaunchPads, a LaunchKey Mini Mk3, Nektar P6. An Ipad ties them all together, makes them light up in the right ways etc.
It can do stuff like mute tracks in sync, for instance mute these tracks in 4 bars, these in 2 etc. Also full control over each tracks filters, so I can freeze them, set the them to different places, set the speed they move. Then I unfreeze and they all move to their positions, can move slowly and gradually or instantly or any speed in between.
Beat repeat on every channel, latchable. Punch in FX. Everything is motion-recordable. Sequencing and motion recording happens on the Hapax. There’s a ton more stuff, too much to list.
It’s a work in progress, constanly upgrading it. Might swap the Hapax for the Reliq if it turns out good.
,
PS the Octatrack was fun, had controllers mapped to everything, it was wonderful. But still too limiting ultimately!
It was ten years ago…
I stopped using ableton to make tunes around 2015.
From what I remember, i had 2 ‘decks’ of 8 tracks. I used native ableton plugins to save cpu. Live looping just made it crash. It crashed once live on stage, without live looping.
It was an interesting experiment. Ultimatley I spent more time designing the bloody template than I did making music. Not for me.
All I did was look at the OT structure, and ask my self, what parts of this do I want, and how can I build it in Live. (Yeah I had beat repeat on every channel)
Cross fader did great things for beat juggling.
It wasnt that hard conceptually, but building it, routing, and mapping the controls was laborious to say the least.
Your set up sounds even more complicated.
Good luck with your project!
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One other thing about Ableton/M4L is there is latency between devices if you go right to left. You have to go left to right otherwise a delay of the buffer size happens.
Not a huge deal but it means some complex CV type routing in Ableton isnt really working.
I’m looking at Modulat from Isotonik which might overcome this issue hopefully.
‘Spend more time designing the bloody template’…
Ha ha yes I can relate to this 100%. I was up to over 1000 CC mappings and then had to redo from the start because they werent organized properly.
I’ve actually cried a few times, actual sobbing like a baby I’m not too proud to admit. Sometimes it just doesn’t seem to want to work how it should.
But I love having a crazy idea then making it become a reality. And I realised that no matter which groovebox/device I buy they never do exactly what I want. So I’m taking an idea or two from each device and making something better.
Actually its been Drambo on the Ipad thats allowed most of it to work, in terms of intercepting MIDI and doing mad stuff with it.
What do you mean by right to left?
Sending control signals right to left. Necessary must be delayed otherwise time-travel would be possible.
Because audio gets processed sequentially through devices.
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Sorry forgot to reply to you directly, see last response.
Ableton kind of nudges you in the right direction, notice how Master is on the right. And tracks get added to the right.
Some software, like Drambo for instance only allows you to patch top to bottom, left to right.
You can send stuff the other way with a specific module and set the feedback delay. It cant be zero though obviously.
Ableton doesnt tell you explicitly but you do get latency connecting backwards.
Simple example, always put LFO to the left of the thing it’s modulating.
It’s a little tricky to tell what your after exactly without a very clear yet detailed explanation.
There’s tons of M4L devices that maybe close, just need a little modification.
Just need more details that are simple to understand.
Just going to bed now, will add more detail tomorrow.
But basically you know how the Octatrack can record to a buffer, and playback from that buffer, simultaneously… well that.
The Expert Sleepers VST I mentioned does it, but its dated and is missing stuff like slicing etc.
I’ve found M4L devices that claim to do it but dont seem to work native M1, or are too limited in ways.
Well if “dated” is a concern you’ll most likely have to get under the hood of M4L and make what you want.
Depending on what you need exactly from slicing, there’s definitely useful stuff out there.
If being dated wasn’t an issue I’d say look into “BeatLookUp,” a Reaktor ensemble floating around in some threads out there from ages ago. It’s extremely cool. Best buffer recording/player I ever found.
In a way it supports slicing, but I’m not exactly sure what you need from that feature.
And again, its really old, but still the best thing in my opinion.
There’s also Ms Pinky.
If you’re willing you can modify it with a little M4L objects, or kind of hack one device into another.
I had made a buffer I could record and play on DVS Ms Pinky vinyl once.
So live sampling and realtime DVS manipulation with slicing and the ability to add cue points on the fly.
It was definitely one of the coolest things I had done with all that stuff.
Dated tho 
It’s tuff to beat the OT.
To create that functionality in Live, that’s simple, you’re going to have to dig into some M4L.
Unless there’s actually someone who has made something currently.
Reaktor User library comes to mind as well.
Or an OT just for that feature.
One of the smaller things that is harder to recreate in terms of the xfader and parameter control in general is the resolution limitation of 0-127 values for midi. Do you know of a workaround for this in Ableton, or has it not really bothered you?
Also, might look into some DJ software to use in Ableton.
There’s definitely some creative hacks to blend those things together. Not sure if you can record directly into Serato Sample, but it has the best slicing workflow out
Thanks for all this info. Will research thoroughly.
I think I will have to learn Max, will take it slow and see it as a long term upgrading solution for several parts of my rig. Also will learn MTP Pro to have another layer of translation between the Ipad and Mac.
For a software Octatrack, Drambo is hard to beat. It even has a crossfader and scenes.
I mostly used to use my Octatrack to chop my own samples, for arrangement in Ableton. Ableton’s Buffer Shuffler 2 does a pretty good job of slicing on the fly, and you can record the results into Session clips.
But Ableton falls down hard when it comes to sequencing. The magic of the Octatrack for me is the combination of the sequencer and the sampler/fx. The Push can help, but it’s still not as quick.
Take a look at Drambo, if you have an iPad or iPhone. It runs on the Mac too, even as a plugin, but is best with touch.
On the whole, it hasn’t mattered.
Ableton supports 14-bit CCs though, if you send two CCs in quick successsion, the first one I think between 0-32, the second has to be exactly 32 higher, it will interpret it as a single 14bit value.
You can select it from the drop down box that appears on the bottom left of the screen when you map a control.
Whats harder is finding the right hardware which can send it. I’ve got quite a few controllers but not much that sends 14bit.
Ableton also supports relative CC but that comes with its own set of problems like having to see the monitor (I generally have no need to have it on whilst jamming).
Most controls on the Octatrack only go to 127 anyway, although I’m not really concerned with copying it 1-1.
What I most wanted was to have a sampling workflow (using buffers) with sequencable record, play, and clear buffer trigs. Thats all done and its amazing!
Managed to fake timestretching/slicing using ramp LFOs from the Hapax, works well.
I do wish Ableton had better MIDI options though, like being able to distinguish CCs on individual devices, else you’re stuck with only 16 x 120 different CCs. Also input and ouput ranges would help, many to one, instead of just one-to-many.
M4L devices can receive OSC btw. I’m looking into that as a work around, both for limited CC numbers and finer control. I’ll need more Ipads for that though. Anyone fancy sending me their old Ipads? 
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I’m using Drambo! Its the dogs bollocks.
Unfortunately I only have one Ipad and its fully maxed with just my Drambo project, I think around 3000 modules. It controls my controllers, makes them light up correctly, also controls Ableton and links everything together. Without Drambo running my entire rig doesnt work.
Yeah Ableton sucks at sequencing. I sequence on Hapax, its synced via DC coupled audio from Ableton, Hapax project loads which selects a certain key range on a Abe sampler which has many different tempos of click track on key zones, then Ableton syncs with Hapax using audio.
Complicated to explain but it works well. Fuck midi for syncing it doesnt really work well enough (for me).
I do wish Drambo worked better on Mac. Id probably switch to just that. Its not optimized well enough yet though, on Mac or Ipad (or more likely IOS is too shit to allow it to run properly), also on Mac the mouse doesn’t work properly to do stuff.
Plus Ableton is better in some regards. Best way is a crazy mix of everything, sequencing is best on at least 128 pads. Cannot wait for the Reliq, hope they develop the shit out of it!
Max patching operates from right to left tho,? I find judicious use of [t] (trigger) and objects like bondo keep stuff like this in check. Plus incorporating gen can also tighten things up significantly
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