What do you mean by right to left?
Sending control signals right to left. Necessary must be delayed otherwise time-travel would be possible.
Because audio gets processed sequentially through devices.
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Sorry forgot to reply to you directly, see last response.
Ableton kind of nudges you in the right direction, notice how Master is on the right. And tracks get added to the right.
Some software, like Drambo for instance only allows you to patch top to bottom, left to right.
You can send stuff the other way with a specific module and set the feedback delay. It cant be zero though obviously.
Ableton doesnt tell you explicitly but you do get latency connecting backwards.
Simple example, always put LFO to the left of the thing it’s modulating.
It’s a little tricky to tell what your after exactly without a very clear yet detailed explanation.
There’s tons of M4L devices that maybe close, just need a little modification.
Just need more details that are simple to understand.
Just going to bed now, will add more detail tomorrow.
But basically you know how the Octatrack can record to a buffer, and playback from that buffer, simultaneously… well that.
The Expert Sleepers VST I mentioned does it, but its dated and is missing stuff like slicing etc.
I’ve found M4L devices that claim to do it but dont seem to work native M1, or are too limited in ways.
Well if “dated” is a concern you’ll most likely have to get under the hood of M4L and make what you want.
Depending on what you need exactly from slicing, there’s definitely useful stuff out there.
If being dated wasn’t an issue I’d say look into “BeatLookUp,” a Reaktor ensemble floating around in some threads out there from ages ago. It’s extremely cool. Best buffer recording/player I ever found.
In a way it supports slicing, but I’m not exactly sure what you need from that feature.
And again, its really old, but still the best thing in my opinion.
There’s also Ms Pinky.
If you’re willing you can modify it with a little M4L objects, or kind of hack one device into another.
I had made a buffer I could record and play on DVS Ms Pinky vinyl once.
So live sampling and realtime DVS manipulation with slicing and the ability to add cue points on the fly.
It was definitely one of the coolest things I had done with all that stuff.
Dated tho 
It’s tuff to beat the OT.
To create that functionality in Live, that’s simple, you’re going to have to dig into some M4L.
Unless there’s actually someone who has made something currently.
Reaktor User library comes to mind as well.
Or an OT just for that feature.
One of the smaller things that is harder to recreate in terms of the xfader and parameter control in general is the resolution limitation of 0-127 values for midi. Do you know of a workaround for this in Ableton, or has it not really bothered you?
Also, might look into some DJ software to use in Ableton.
There’s definitely some creative hacks to blend those things together. Not sure if you can record directly into Serato Sample, but it has the best slicing workflow out
Thanks for all this info. Will research thoroughly.
I think I will have to learn Max, will take it slow and see it as a long term upgrading solution for several parts of my rig. Also will learn MTP Pro to have another layer of translation between the Ipad and Mac.
For a software Octatrack, Drambo is hard to beat. It even has a crossfader and scenes.
I mostly used to use my Octatrack to chop my own samples, for arrangement in Ableton. Ableton’s Buffer Shuffler 2 does a pretty good job of slicing on the fly, and you can record the results into Session clips.
But Ableton falls down hard when it comes to sequencing. The magic of the Octatrack for me is the combination of the sequencer and the sampler/fx. The Push can help, but it’s still not as quick.
Take a look at Drambo, if you have an iPad or iPhone. It runs on the Mac too, even as a plugin, but is best with touch.
On the whole, it hasn’t mattered.
Ableton supports 14-bit CCs though, if you send two CCs in quick successsion, the first one I think between 0-32, the second has to be exactly 32 higher, it will interpret it as a single 14bit value.
You can select it from the drop down box that appears on the bottom left of the screen when you map a control.
Whats harder is finding the right hardware which can send it. I’ve got quite a few controllers but not much that sends 14bit.
Ableton also supports relative CC but that comes with its own set of problems like having to see the monitor (I generally have no need to have it on whilst jamming).
Most controls on the Octatrack only go to 127 anyway, although I’m not really concerned with copying it 1-1.
What I most wanted was to have a sampling workflow (using buffers) with sequencable record, play, and clear buffer trigs. Thats all done and its amazing!
Managed to fake timestretching/slicing using ramp LFOs from the Hapax, works well.
I do wish Ableton had better MIDI options though, like being able to distinguish CCs on individual devices, else you’re stuck with only 16 x 120 different CCs. Also input and ouput ranges would help, many to one, instead of just one-to-many.
M4L devices can receive OSC btw. I’m looking into that as a work around, both for limited CC numbers and finer control. I’ll need more Ipads for that though. Anyone fancy sending me their old Ipads? 
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I’m using Drambo! Its the dogs bollocks.
Unfortunately I only have one Ipad and its fully maxed with just my Drambo project, I think around 3000 modules. It controls my controllers, makes them light up correctly, also controls Ableton and links everything together. Without Drambo running my entire rig doesnt work.
Yeah Ableton sucks at sequencing. I sequence on Hapax, its synced via DC coupled audio from Ableton, Hapax project loads which selects a certain key range on a Abe sampler which has many different tempos of click track on key zones, then Ableton syncs with Hapax using audio.
Complicated to explain but it works well. Fuck midi for syncing it doesnt really work well enough (for me).
I do wish Drambo worked better on Mac. Id probably switch to just that. Its not optimized well enough yet though, on Mac or Ipad (or more likely IOS is too shit to allow it to run properly), also on Mac the mouse doesn’t work properly to do stuff.
Plus Ableton is better in some regards. Best way is a crazy mix of everything, sequencing is best on at least 128 pads. Cannot wait for the Reliq, hope they develop the shit out of it!
Max patching operates from right to left tho,? I find judicious use of [t] (trigger) and objects like bondo keep stuff like this in check. Plus incorporating gen can also tighten things up significantly
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In case if you missed it :
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Sure, Im just talking about connecting devices in Ableton chains tho. You can go any way, but always modulate left to right. Otherwise by the time your device has reacted to the control signal, the audios already gone.
Simple example, if using an LFO module, put it to left of the device its modulating.
Apologies I’m probably not explaining it well, its morning here and I aint had my cuppa yet 
Thanks, yeah I saw it upthread then it got merged, too.
Now the thread links to the thread and its like a crazy forum feedback loop you can never escape 
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Ah, ok so you mean the signal chain of an Ableton track? I thought you meant the order of events in a Max patch
Im not well informed on Max patching yet! Its on my list to learn tho.
Have you seen Modulat, from Isotoniks shop?
Any thoughts on that? I’m interested in it as a quick-fix to do some more advanced Abelton CV patching before I get into Max.
Do you know anything about the way Max works underneath? Like is it more or less efficient than C/C++ etc for audio and midi?
If i were to hazard a guess id say that technically speaking C would be more efficient as it is the pure language without the graphical elements (and all the extra computational requirements that come with that) but in truth i have no idea. Max is super efficient now tho, particularly running on M1 or M2, i can push it really far and everything is consistently tight, and if you go down the gen~ path things can be even tighter. Historically i found that M4L patches could sometimes get a bit heavy but that was usually down to bad programmiing on my part, and certainly with M1/2 i havent experienced any issues whatsoever. Definitely worth investigating, if you have the time
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I don’t know if this is helpful but I remembered a post where there was some discussion about the pathos of octatrack
and included a link to a very detailed structure diagram that might further help you map out what you’re after? I’d repost it but it was too large for the forum limit so it’s on someone’s file sharing which I believe the link is still active since I downloaded it not too long ago.