Timing issues… How do you record MC audio into Ableton?

Elektron Gear Model:Cycles
#1

I am having some weird latency issues with the Model:Cycles. I am using the “Ext. Instrument” device in Ableton; other hardware is working fine and recording as expected. a) When programming directly on the M:C my audio is arriving late and recorded with significant latency in Ableton. b) When sending MIDI-data from Ableton to the M:C and recoding audio there is almost zero latency, but the first note is even to early and producing a click?! I guess most people use the Elektron sequencer, not MIDI within Ableton to sequence the M:C.

To better visualize… Using the M:C sequencer:

from-mc-seq
from-mc-seq2386×1146 300 KB

Programming Ableton MIDI-data:

from-ableton-midi-b
from-ableton-midi-b1378×1122 69.9 KB

The first note is even too early producing a click. Any idea why?

from-ableton-midi-a
from-ableton-midi-a1238×1242 63.1 KB

#2

could you post your Ableton audio settings?

#3

Bildschirmfoto 2022-09-07 um 19.52.23
Bildschirmfoto 2022-09-07 um 19.52.231224×1436 191 KB

#4

okay, I don’t know much, all I can do is share my setup. I’m using a Mac M1 and Ableton 11, sample rate 48k, buffer size 32 samples and I’m pretty happy with the latency. Usually what I do is record one track then change the input to “no input” before recording the next track - and I’ll deactivate all the other tracks.
Have you tried to decrease the buffer size? if you hear crackling you could consider putting your pc/laptop on flight mode and close all the other apps.

#5

Another thing I forgot to add is to record choosing “in” or “off” in case you’re monitoring, as far as I know “auto” adds a delay.

#6

Buffer size is one thing as @nemoCPT mentioned… definitely lower it for recording external gear.

Another possibility… do you have any plugins on other tracks, including return tracks?

If any plugins introduce latency it will offset your project, which becomes most noticeable when recording audio (like theMC).

#7

Assuming Model:Cycles is receiving clock from Ableton, take a look at Step 4: Adjust The MIDI Clock Sync Delay here https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071149-Synchronizing-Live-via-MIDI. If you keep adjusting this parameter and recording a 2 bar loop to see where the transients line up with the timeline grid, you can usually dial it in so they’re properly in sync. Also note that (for some arcane reasons) direct monitoring an audio track that is being recorded can introduce latency. For safety it’s best to monitor on a separate audio track to the one that’s recording.

3 Likes
#8

by the way, I noticed that recording audio from usb is somehow much worse than using an external audio interface. Always getting a lot of glitches and crackles with any buffer size - not so much latency. so now what I do is activate midi out sync from Ableton and recording using ext. input and monitoring off. I’m able to lower the buffer to 64 or 32 with no problems and the M:C starts automatically whenever I press record on Ableton. I might end up removing those couple of ms of latency anyway though.

#9

The solution to timing issues between hardware and daw: erm multiclock :-P. It sucks to have to pony up for it initially but then all your timing problems are gone for good.

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#10

when in doubt just throw money at the problem ahah Jokes aside, I guess that’s the best solution when you have multiple synths you want to record at once. If you’re recording one M:C or M:S track at a time I HAVE to believe that there is a cheaper solution.

#11

I honestly tried everything else first and it was always hit or miss unfortunately. There may be cheaper solutions like the expert sleepers USAMO. But you really need some sort of sample accurate audio based clock.

#12

Agree but there is another option I use with these drum machines - 1010 Blackbox. A little more $$$ (new) than the ERM but it obviously is much more feature rich. I record all my drum machines into it. You can set the loop length and it has sync start so it’s very easy to get the machines in this way.

On the Tr6s I pull down all the faders but one and record loops one track at a time. It takes 5 minutes at the most to do this since I am just making 4 or 8 bar loops typically. But, the advantage is I can make really long loops as well that are synced. I have made 64 bars for example.

After that you can drag and drop the WAVs into abelton and you are done. I did this with a notoriously jittery machine in the Casio Rz1 and when I played back all the loops together in the BB it captured the machine perfectly. I could not tell the difference between hitting play on the RZ1 or BB.

It’s another nice option, and the way I plan to record my MC. Also from the BB I can send that audio easily into other samplers and process further as well.

If you just want 4 bars recorded all the time another great option is the OT. Another sampler with beautiful timing.

#13

I had the same problem with the M:S and that solution worked for me perfectly!

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#14

This record problems are solved on the Live 12 beta. But I can record all my synths just with an adjust on the preferences midi always usb. No problem with digitone, model samples, roland S1 and td3.

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#15

What did live 12 do to fix this? That seems like a huge feature.

#16

On live 12 The timestreaching and the detection of the recording is better and it auto warps it better than on older versions.

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