As I’ve made the shift from string based music in bands over to electronic, a lot of what I like is based on vocal samples and chops. However, I actually find that making music with vocal elements as a backing element (little phrases here and there) maybe feels nicer and more natural while writing. I end up using vocals chopped up as a rhythmic element more than not. And when I try to put a vocal in the “lead” position in the traditional way it sounds a bit forced sometimes.
I think this is probably because I was schooled in the classic verse/chorus/verse format of making music. In that world, a track without a dominant vocal is rare. So I tend to lean on that school of songwriting.
If you’ve considered this (or even transitioned between the two styles) did you have to adjust your compositional style? Like maybe the synth or drums become the lead component. Sometimes I listen to electronic music and it feels like it doesn’t need a vocal because they have a hook, motif or theme that replaces it. And others actually just skips the vocals and even though you could put one in there, the musician just… doesn’t. Like they maybe didn’t even consider it as a potential addition or they just don’t think it needs it.
Anyone else had this thought, or made a similar switch between “traditional” style song structures and non vocal styles?
Mainly I’d be interested in any learnings or things to watch out for.
Electronic music, for the most part, when broken down into genres is extremely formulaic. People who are accustomed to composing in a specific style for a specific genre already know what goes where so forcing a vocal into a lead position is a bit of a mainstreamy radio kind of thing to do.
You see live looping with vocals or other vocal elements, but usually it’s a phrase or other element similar to that which is loopable, but generally it’s not the dominant focus of the songwriting.
There was certainly a lot of big room house remixes that used popular songs with lead vocals and reworked them into that format, that was a popular festival thing like 10 or 12 years ago. Unless you’re writing in a specific genre for a specific audience, you should just do what makes you happy.
If you like it and it sounds good to you, it will probably sound good to someone else. That said, it is hard to shake traditional songwriting habits and unless you are trying to bridge with the conventions of dance music, it’s probably not necessary. However, if you want to make music in a specific genre, it will probably help you to learn the formulas and then the missing “lead” element will fade out of your focus even if it remains in your periphery.
I’m not an expert, but I came from making music in other genres and I tried to independently analyze this at some point then determined there are too many current genres and rules that they follow way beyond the raves I was going to in the 90’s and 00’s and I just make whatever I like as opposed to focusing on the conventions.
Knowing what elements work and will help you create is useful. Making a lot of different stuff won’t help you to create a cohesive album in one set genre, but if you have your own flavor, you can probably put random stuff together and make it stick.
Anyways, this is just my opinions and observations, I’m sure someone else will have a different take on it but that’s how I perceive the absence (or presence) of lead vocals as it pertains to electronic music.
Yeah this is a good point. I was mainly interested to see if others had been through the same thought process. To your point, I think I’ve adjusted OK with most things but my use of vocals always feels a bit odd.
I think it’s another step on the road of discovery. It’s like I always used to see anyone making rock music without vocals as “brave” since it’s tricky to somehow maintain the attention without it (both in terms of a focal point onstage, and within the record itself). Electronic music doesn’t seem to have that issue quite as much, and many artists I know simply don’t use vocals at all.
What struck me was how an artist like Four Tet (who I’m still learning about) barely uses vocals and tells an interesting story throughout. I noticed that on his current record, the hero of the whole piece seems to be the use of looped guitar recordings, which felt like it was vying to be the thing you take away from it. (To be fair, there are moments with the use of vocals.) That triggered me to think I’m shoehoring things a little bit based on old habits maybe, and that rather than having a standard “lead” vocal, I should shake it up a bit.
Fair point on "just do it’ and I probably will be looking to see what I can come up with, sans the traditional vocal part. I still like random pieces of the vocal sound either chopped into almost a rhythmic pad or maybe just as a background element. If anything I can see it as a challenge to try and get a feeling across in a new way.
No reason why not I guess, since for the most part, artists like Jon Hopkins, a fair chunk of Daniel Avery, Aphex, Bonobo to a fgreater or lesser extent don’t rely on vocal parts.
I come more from a (way back when) rock, punk, post punk and indie background, and then went on to explore more and more music out from that point. I still listen to some music in that area, but more rarely than baroque music, modern composition, jazz, electronic music of all sorts, etc.
Nowadays, unless a vocalist is both interesting lyrically and in terms of timbre, rhythm, etc, I’m just not interested in it. I can listen to Bjork, Mark E Smith, Robert Wyatt, Joanna Newsom, Scott Walker, etc all day long. However, unless a voice is radically treated in an interesting way, or fragmented to the point that it serves more an instrumental than a vocal purpose, I just don’t care to hear it in most electronic music. If anything, a cliched and basic set of lyrics over a song are more likely than anything else to make me just turn it off.
I do love the use of vocal timbres in electronic music though, just in the same way I like different synthesized instrument timbres. I hope to explore that in the future.
Don’t think this will help you, but I’m kinda struggling with comparable questions. I used to sing in bands, that was my thing till around 2020. I wanted to write songs, but didn’t have the tools for it: couldn’t stick with learning an instrument, and Ableton didn’t enable me either.
Fast forward to now and I’ve learned how to write music with synths and drum machines, mostly Elektrons. In theory, I’d like to use my vocals in this context, as I’ve always wanted to write music that I can sing to myself. I also think that my voice can add a human/personal element that’s missing from a lot of electronic music. And I like artists like Kelly Lee Owens or Fever Ray, who find a perfect place for their vocals.
In practice, I’m enjoying writing synth lines or drums or designing sounds way more than singing right now. I feel like I can be really creative there as I’m still quite new to it and excited about it. Whereas when it comes to singing, I’m a bit bored of my routines. And too lazy to break them. And I find that I don’t leave that much room for my vocals because there’s more interesting sounds I like to fill a track with. It also doesn’t help that singing isn’t great to your neighbors, so to sing the right way, I’d need to be in a rehearsal room/studio, where I can be loud.
I’m fine with that for now, but I’m hoping my interest in singing will return. It just moves you in a different way and can also touch people because of that. But for now, I can also appreciate that I can write music that doesn’t require vocals all by myself. So yeah, just do what feels right to you.
I play in some rock bands (including an instrumental 3-piece), and also do solo synth stuff with no vocals. If you’re doing beat-based stuff, there are probably good models for working with voice, depending what you want to do. My tastes run experimental so I think of someone like Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith. But really, I’d just study stuff you like to figure out what they’re doing.
Vocals can also be a texture and a source of control rather than “lead instrument with lyrics.” I don’t usually recommend gear to solve a compositional issue, but if you want to see what’s possible, I highly recommend Madrona Labs’ Virta: Madrona Labs Virta. There is a demo. You need a mic and an audio interface. And headphones or good aim to avoid feedback.
Their patcher can take a bit to learn but the results are really fun, and if you like using your voice to compose (especially thinking of you @Azzarole) this might be an interesting bridge to integrating your voice into electronics. I’ve seen some fantastic performances with voice and modular this way.
One final thought for those coming from the school of rock: in traditional rock songwriting, you need to leave space for the vocals in both the verse and the chorus. That gives you a creative continuum in an instrumental setting:
Aha! I think you’ve hit the nail on the head for me. I do like vocal timbres too, but more as a component among other components rather than the defining and dominant thing.
Interesting, I will look into this, thanks. Although like you’ve stated, not looking for new gear right now.
I will also see if I want to leave my best melodies for my synths or maybe just take some for my vocals. Although, I think I can come up with way more complex melodies with my voice.
…the voice is the first and oldest instrument of them all…
and in all my backcatalog, wich inlcudes pretty many genres from orchestral soundtracks to techno, from ambient to singer songwriter, the overall share 80 % to 20 % between something including various vocal elements, wether it’s just snippeting phrases, punchlines / hook para phrasing, choirs, add lips, backings or whole songs with verse/ bridge / chorus structures versus “just” instrumentals…and even in this “few” instrumentals, vovals were often the source of a sound, just not recognizable as such, because of various production treatment…
our throat and mouth and lips remain the most unique instrument to work with…i just love it…