Thinking of ditching MD for AR

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

Machinedrum was my gateway to Elektron gear. It was my first drum machine. Initially, I bought it to generate sounds for sampling into a DAW, but I got hooked on sequencing out of the box and that led to trying out the MnM, OT, DNK and M:C. Of all of those the one I kept (and use the most out of all my gear) is the lowly M:C. It’s by far my favorite piece of gear and I just wish it had polyphony. (And Digitone wasn’t for me.)

I’m thinking about moving to the AR (MKI) to replace the MD for a number of reasons, one of them being that I always wanted to have more expressive control than the MD offered (and I tried many things to make up for it) and in the end while I love some of the iconic sounds the MD is capable of, the work needed to get it to sound good in general isn’t trivial. In short, I think its natively digital, plinky sound isn’t for me, and while it’s capable of getting close to many sounds and has sampling, I am constantly tweaking sounds to get them to sound better, when I think I’d rather have something which offers easier-to-reach, warmer and fuzzier sweet spots than the sea of squelches and plonks that is the MD.

As I mentioned I want more expressiveness too. I want to be able to feel like I have more tactile control over drum sounds, instead of the digital random mayhem the Machinedrum is so good at (and I’ve enjoyed). AR seems like the opposite of that with velocity modulation and scene morphing. Much less unpredictability and submission to the machine.

The power of the MD is hard to let go of. And the MCL I just bought for it makes it a lot more useful and fun and even more of a jack of all trades. And half the tracks on AR is not a minor tradeoff. Seems like with MD+MCL there’s the possibility of basically having Ableton Live in a box. (Or, well, two boxes…)

Another reason I think I might like the AR is it resembles the M:C in many ways and having all the modern sequencer features built in is preferable.

If I buy an AR it would be with the intent of selling the MD after recreating anything I might try to keep (which I’m sad to say isn’t that much after all these years of owning it!) Prices are high right now and I’m not the type to collect gear.

I’m not done researching the AR, but I understand it has some FM machines. Are they comparable to what’s offered on the MD?

Also are the VA capabilities on AR significantly better than what the MD can do now with the X firmware?

Any downsides related to the stuff I care about - sound, expressiveness, sequencing - that I should be aware of?

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#2

I just did this switch.

Have a close listen to the AR synth engines. They take some work, too, for best results. Also I think you should plan on using samples to support the synth engines and get the most out of the AR.

So I think the synth engines are not immediately fantastic. I still made the switch, for exactly the reasons you stated - expressive control is out there with the AR. Not to mention microtiming, retrigs, slide trigs, etc. The compressor and distortion are fun, and can get you to that odd over-the-top place Elektrons tend to get to.

Ask away if I forgot something, but yeah - my humble take is that if you are willing to work with the AR synth engines a bit, there’s a lot to justify this trade.

Edit: no CTL-ALL functionalities, but you get PERF and scenes, which rule. They involve prep, but allow for more meaningful changes IMO.

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#3

…if u don’t have to sell, just don’t…

too hi risk for big regrets…

and if u wanna get away from “digital by nature” u better add a used analog heat or an a4 mk1 to ur sonic equasion…

rytm is nowhere near to the a4 when it comes to analog drums and percussions…
for way less money…

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#4

If funds are tight then I see nothing wrong with selling it if you’re not gelling with the MD. However the combo of both is pretty nutbars! With the Rytms basic Midi, you could sequence the MD and use the perf pads for crazy modulation!

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#5

sounds like a bad idea. I’d rather get a Digitakt and Analog Heat and keep the MD for sure. AR is very limited.

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#6

The AR has actual analog circuits and no VA. Analog oscillators, filters, mixer, distortion and compressor. You can overdrive it to hell without clipping (although it does an odd thing towards the end of the chain where it’ll just disengage output if it gets too hot).

The AR pads respond to velocity weirdly. It’s very hard to get consistent, smooth, confident velocity changes by striking them. They get you generally in the ballpark but if you want precision finger-drumming you might be disappointed. The pressure/aftertouch is great, however. You will be able to get all sorts of smooth modulations using the pads in Performance mode.

I like a lot of the sounds I get out of the synth engines, especially the kicks and the 2VCO synth. There’s a lot of variety, the FM options are really fun. It’s better at atonal sounds because the upper-range tuning isn’t precise. A lot of people complain about only having one LFO per track, and having to sacrifice it when they want exponential envelopes rather than linear. I tend to work with that and it doesn’t annoy me enough to moan about it on forums. I wish there was a 2nd filter, or a dedicated high-pass filter as well as the variable mode one. It’s quite hard to get the Tom, HH and CY machines to sound “exciting”. They’re functional, and sometimes interesting, but I’ve yet to make a sound I love with them. You can use the Cowbell, Rim and Tom machines as synth leads with some messing about. It’s fun.

I don’t own the MD and haven’t used one. They sound very different in youtube videos. I suspect you’ll miss the MD if you swap it out, because they really don’t cover any of the same ground (from what I can hear), other than broad "percussion’.

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#7

If I were you, I wouldn’t sell my MD right away. It’s a rare item, too easy to regret once it’s gone.

Maybe you should just take something like a QuNeo to extend the hands on approach.

As for the sound, I like a Deco at the end of the MD, but you might prefer an Analog Heat or other “warming” unit. By the way, a friend of mine recently jammed on his Monomachine and I was surprised how his low-quality monitors would greatly warm the sound. This, and his use of the audible artifacts of a compressor pushed to his limits.

I have both, and wouldn’t know which choose.

They are really completely different machines, and even sampling the MD to use it on the AR isn’t as gratifying as tweaking the MD.
FM on AR is definitely poor compared to MD.
They are both pretty unique in how the overall experience feels bigger than the sum of their parts.

My conclusion is that you should really get to know the AR before making your move.

Check @pix’s mind-melting 14yo video again, before swapping ^^

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#8

Dammit. Now I have an MD on my GAS list.

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#9

This. Stick a good stereo distortion after the MD and say hello to a whole new dimension of thick, gritty sound.

That said, MD and AR make a great combo.

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#10

So … people are saying the Analog Heat or similar would make the MD sound less digital. I think that digitalness is part of its sound character, down to the oscillators, envelopes, and filters. You can warm up digital, but it’s still just warmed up digital. Listening to the filters of the AR the difference to my ears is pretty huge. The filters on MD are not the greatest. On top of that you can warm up the signal at many places in the chain, right down to the oscillator. MD can sort of do this but its distortion leans towards metallic, squelch and of course bitcrush. It is not a warm sound, but that’s why I got it.

The pads on AR are from what I hear just as bad as M:C. (Maybe even worse on MK1 vs MK2, and I’m planning on getting the MK1 as I prefer to sample with Koala on my phone and it’s much less expensive.) On a cold morning finger drumming is a no-go on M:C. This is not that huge a deal with several drumpad and keyboard controller options at my disposal. Does AR support mod wheel, after touch, or pitch bend?

AR has another advantage I just learned over MD, which is sound locking, something I love about M:C and can make up for the reduced track count. Does this feature work on every track? I assumed that the analog circuits on each track were different, so is there a separate sound pool for each track, or was I mistaken? Also I assume you can sample lock on any track. Stimming’s review was very helpful for listening to the AR’s sound and there was a mention of 128 samples per project, which is no surprise.

I kind of want something more limited, after several years I still find the MD overwhelming. It is too configurable. MCL has helped wrangle the complexity and I would miss the ability to copy/paste/clear grid slots …

This is not an easy choice! And I would prefer to pick one or the other. I would rather have only one main drum machine / DAW substitute as I really don’t want to have to think about what to bring to a gig or have a big arsenal to lug. I wanna maintain having one simple core rig that I can add optional stuff to (nothing interdependent).

Knowing I could do decent melodic synth lines on the AR would really tip the scales in its favor.

#11

Got myself a AR first, and quickly felt that it’s one of the best drum machines ever. Some time later I got myself a MD, and since that, my AR has been collecting dust.

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#12

with samples yes … with the synth machine … wouldn’t buy it for that. M:C would be waaaaaay better for synth lines.

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#13

Been there!

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#14

That’s interesting! What do you like about the MD more than AR?

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#15

You can sound lock sounds that use machines that work on the given track. So a 2VCO sound won’t work on the middle and top row, but most (all?) sounds will work on tracks 3 and 4 (and maybe 1 & 2 too… I keep forgetting if 1, 2, 3, 4 are the same because they put their supported machine lists in a different order and it confuses me).

You can sample lock on any track, yes.

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#16

Is that because of the ability to set note lengths on M:C?

#17

It may be user error on my end, but I got an Analog Heat MKII specifically to ‘betterize’ my new MD UW.

Long story short, there was a noticeable drop in overall volume when the AH MKII was in bypass mode, and the overall sound was not as great as feeding the MD directly into an audio interface.

I’m still new to the MD UW, so I may be a bit unhelpful saying that I dig how it sounds dry - not only for the sound though, but the level at which it outputs; the sound comes out hot and clips my SSL just right.

By the way, I would not get a Rytm; I’d get something else instead.

Maybe an A4 MKII, or a Digitone + AH MKII. ( I have the latter combo and it makes killer drums.)

#18

M:C is a synth that can be called a synth. AR is a drum machine with drum synthesizing. M:C can do both quite well. AR is only good at drums. Or with using samples. IMHO.

Note length is not the actual problem… (both have that function)

If you asked me to choose between M:C or AR … I’d go for the M:C. I hope the AR will get an update that makes me like it more. It’s lacking too much. No tricks. No specialities. Filter, FX are not easy to dial in. I rather do drum duties with my Digitakt … or M:C. Even synth lines are easier with the Digitakt with Single Cycle Waveforms.

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#19

I sold my MD to fund an ARmk2 and have never looked back.

The AR sound suits me much more than the MD’s sound palette did (I just like the round, crunchy analog sound more than what the MD was giving me).

I also really like the pads. I know people give them a lot of shit, but as a drummer it makes a world of difference to be able to tap in rhythms directly. You can use fixed velocity or adjust velocity after if you’re worried about pad sensitivity and all that; the point is that you have them, which is a massive upgrade to not having them.

The upgraded sequencer and OS is much appreciated, the ability to stack samples on the analog engines is really nice, analog filter/drive/compression is lovely, the dual VCO is one of the gnarliest sounding synths I own.

Trying to frame this stuff as subjective as possible since it’s really just a matter of preference.

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#20

It has three tracks that’ll host the 2VCO monosynth machines. They have two oscillators, basic FM + ring mod, detune, a bunch of waveforms. They’re pretty good for bass tones, but not great for melodic leads. You can pitch them high, but the higher you go, the less stable the tuning. I quite like them for weird FX tones, transition tones, pitched sounds that you’d use in the places you might put a cymbal. My ear grows tired of them very quickly when I try to make “real” melodies out of them… but they’re ok for little trill-y flourishes and Kraftwerk-style melodic drops (if you’re ok with them being slightly out of tune). People use them for drones. You could use them for mid-range chords or as sources for samples, if you’re careful and detailed with your programming.

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