The Rytm Input : High headroom?

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#98

I’ve had my RYTM since they first came out…but I’ve only just recently actually felt the need to try using the external audio in.

having read a lot of stuff on this topic I wasn’t exactly hopeful of a great result…so imagine my surprise when my TR-8 interfaced quite beautifully via a TRS insert type lead… it sounds fantastic going throught the RYTMs Compressor & final output section…& mixes superbly well with the RYTMs sounds too. Drum machine heaven.

Now, perhaps the Roland Corp have blessed the TR-8 with a particularly ‘hot’ output - & I do have the ‘hidden’ internal gains in the TR-8 quite high,as I like to have plenty of scope on the faders…& yes the master output is on full…but then again I work like this on all my gear really.

So isn’t this exactly what this AR ext in issue about ultimately : gain structure??

I tend to have internal levels ( synth, sample & Track ) pretty low in the AR. The master volume is up high & often levels are also fairly high in other output sections such as the compressor. The gain is then quite carefully set via my mixer - nice & hot but nowhere near clipping. This seems to work perfectly - I have plenty of scope for mixing internal AR voices…loads of control over how the ARs FX sound & the external level in from the TR-8 is just fine.

I appreciate other external instruments might not be blessed with a nice hot output, but I can only comment on my own experience - i.e. there’s no problem interfacing the TR-& & RYTM via a single cable.

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#99

The input into the AR is quiet, but it’s not a deal breaker by any means, it’s just not flexible for the variety of levels off different instruments.

For example, I’m thinking you’re using the boost function on the TR8. Off the top of my head, doesn’t that effectively raise the output level by 14db?

Perhaps the audio input is designed for +4db. It’s this kind of information I’m after :slight_smile:

A similar boost for audio input would have been a nice touch, and I’m curious why it or some kind of attenuation wasn’t included?

Cost issue? Because Electron don’t make many obvious design flaws, usually there’s some reason…

#100

when i run my OP-1 through the AR i usually have the track levels on the AR at 50% or less and the master volume knob at 3 o’clock

I tend to use the OP-1 with very little overdrive to minimize noise and it works well for me but it always varies a bit from patch to patch.

Essentially I make sure I reduce the volume of all the internal RYTM tracks until the external output cuts through to my satisfaction. Afterwards I compress or eq the final signal to make up the lost volume.

i do this with a stereo compressor going into a stereo eq. you can replicate this in all DAWs and even on the OT by using a THRU track with the EQ and COMP fx blocks.

i’ve always preferred compressing first then EQing but this is the fun part of dynamics processing and probably a whole other discussion :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#101

I just came here to say that I have my A4 going from 2 mono 1/4" (aka TS) to 1 stereo 1/4" (aka TRS) into the AR and it takes some gain staging but but everything gels together just fine :slight_smile:

Now if I could just deal with that noise floor…

#102

With the new pulse trigger Im hoping the audio input works well for adding a percussion unit!

Anyone adding audio to the input?

#103

The RYTM has the worst implementation of audio-in out of all the Elektron boxes. It’s as if Elektron thought to themselves, “We have very useful audio-ins on every machine we’ve ever created; for the RYTM, let’s try something different, and make it almost useless.”

I would’ve rather had the audio-in completely left off the RYTM in exchange for the ability to modulate more than one parameter at a time using LFOs/envelopes (another feature that only the RYTM lacks out of all the Elektron boxes).

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How do you all pair the RYTM and Digitakt
#104

Hi.
One praxis example:
I use the AR analog input for my Pocket Operator Rhythm (yes it has “h”-s).

I can change the output level at the PO Rhythm in 16 steps (step 15, 16 is distorted, so I use 14).

PO Rhythm > AR > Overbridge (Stereo Outputs) > Ableton Live

The level in Live is ~ -25 dB for the single kick drum which is very low.

The problem is the PO Rhythm has no line level and the Rytm has no instrument input or Hi-Z input.

Lab example:
I test it with a sinus tone from the Operator (Ableton FM Synth) and send it via audio interface to the AR input.

Level plan:
Audio Interface - stereo line out @ -10 dBV (pro gear level)

AR Input 0 dB FS sinus @ 1.05 kHz (C5) -> Output via Overbridge = -21 dB
to low! :-1:

Audio Interface - stereo line out @ +4 dBu (consumer gear level)

AR Input 0 dB FS sinus @ 1.05 kHz (C5) -> Output via Overbridge = -12 dB
to low! :-1:

Audio Interface - stereo line out @ high gain (extra +6 dB boost)

AR Input 0 dB FS sinus @ 1.05 kHz (C5) -> Output via Overbridge = -8 dB
well it’s okay! :wink:

If you like, use your audio interface as “audio thru” to gain the level, try the high-Z input and the high gain output mode.

You lose a stereo input and output, but you need no extra gear. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#105

^ have you been measuring OB vs AR with main volume fully open?
-12db is no big of deal, as you generally want that headroom anyway

#106

http://artproaudio.com/mixers/product/powermix_iii/

#107

yes. I made a test with init sounds (kick, snare).

With full open master level on the AR I “measured” - 8 dB (peak) with -10 dBV at the line input.
The analog output level of the AR is absolute not a issue.

The OB delivers -20 dB (internal audio interface) with the default kick and snare master level has, of course, no effects on the level.
You have to use the track levels for a hotter signal.

The AR output is fine, but the input needs a gain.

I think headroom is good, but -12 dB is to much for a 0 dB FS signal at the AR input. This is like a 12 dB pad (or factor 4) when you play back your audio from the PC/MAC in maximum loudness into the AR.

Anyway - let’s make music. :joy:

#108

I really wish they would add some gain options, and perhaps the option to select mono or stereo for the input, with a future update. Would love to be able to run my Minitaur through the Rytm.

#109

…at today, i still think the audio input should have had some controls and not be something that (for me) just sits there and does nothing unless i look for an alternative solution, which means more cables, more devices on the table and and … :confused: -
it feels a bit like sample import…which is a nice to have feature market-wise, but for the end user is not a nice experience if it doesn’t work as one would expect (regardless of 3rd party software). sure it’s just a sample playback engine that is in there but doesn’t make much sense if one can’t use it straight away. being able to drag and drop samples using either OB or USB drive should have been there from day 1 (day 2 max :slight_smile: )
what’s the point of having an audio input when you need to get an external device to use it? a bit like buying an FX pedal thinking you’ll just plug the cables and you’ll be all set to have fun, but then find out you need an extra piece of gear (which you may/may not have handy?) to actually hear the effect? :neutral_face:

so yeah, i wish they had planned things differently as i think it would have made the AR even better. btw: i’m still waiting for that backward/ping-pong/random playback for the step sequencer…i know, we got probability for the steps, but still…

#110

yes. I made a test with init sounds (kick, snare).

With full open master level on the AR I “measured” - 8 dB (peak) with -10 dBV at the line input.
The analog output level of the AR is absolute not a issue.

The OB delivers -20 dB (internal audio interface) with the default kick and snare master level has, of course, no effects on the level.
You have to use the track levels for a hotter signal.

The AR output is fine, but the input needs a gain.

I think headroom is good, but -12 dB is to much for a 0 dB FS signal at the AR input. This is like a 12 dB pad (or factor 4) when you play back your audio from the PC/MAC in maximum loudness into the AR.

Anyway - let’s make music. :joy: [/quote]
AR input is a fucking joke, indeed

#111

I’ve got my A4 currently running into my AR, and the sound of the A4 is currently being overwhelmed by the drums. Outside of just using Overbridge like a grown up, anybody know how I can better balance the levels of the synth and the drums?

Thanks

#112

I think the only way is to turn your levels up on the a4 and levels down on the rytm. Might be better to do it the other way around, rytm input into a4.

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#113

IIRC someone recommended running the A4 into the AR from the headphone output. Try that and see if you get better levels

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#114

I ran into the same issue. I wanted to run A4 through the Rytm’s analog comp to mix the two devices together but the A4 was too low next to Rytm sounds even if I turned A4’s level all the way up.

#115

Hmm this sounds crazy. But I’ll give it a go

#116

[moderator action, topics merged]

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#117

I suspect the path from analog in into the compressor is fully analog. That means that to control it you would need to implement a digitally controlled analog gain stage. That costs some money - not that much though.

That said, it would have been better if they had some analog gain by default to take into account all scenarios. It’s easy to turn the volume down on your way into the rytm but you can’t turn to 11 on your a4 or a quiet Nord drum 2.

What I suspect is that the input is designed for the optimal level that should arrive at the compressor assuming you’re also hitting it with all the other rytm voices. So indeed the best course of action is to reduce the volume on the rytm voices if you don’t want to run out of analog headroom and turn everything into mush. Unless that’s the sonic aesthetic you’re going for :joy::joy::ecstatic:

That said, I’m not sure how that will effect the snr, depends how nice the design is on the rytm.

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