The Clone War - Behringer. Good or Bad?

[palm]

That’s TOTALLY fine. If you prefer the Deepmind…great👍🏿

But B’s business practice has been appalling. That has NOTHING to do with you loving your Deepmind and everything to do with B being a slimy underhanded company.
Forget the Cork Sniffer, that’s just a huge misstep. But take into consideration the blatant rip offs, the empty promises, and the law suits that he is imposing on others for things that he himself does to others. It’s just completely shameful

But that shouldn’t make you dislike the gear you like. Just think next time before supporting that kinda thing. Myself I won’t. But I won’t tell you not too.

[synththeory]

Clone war

Whatevers hot in the charts… Copy it.

Not good or bad, just short sighted and even lazy.

Personally i would not give any cash to them.

[jamesstiff]

Back to the OPs question:

The Clone War - Behringer. Good or Bad?

My totally subjective answer:

Bad.

Your opinion may differ. That’s totally OK. You enjoy your synth choices and I’ll enjoy mine.

[J3RK]

It really doesn’t need to be black and white.

Clones of things that aren’t available beyond collector status vintage objects that require more TLC than most people realize is: GOOD

Clones that have the blessing of the original designer: Even Better

Clones that respect the original designer and pay a license or royalty: Very Cool

Clones that just meet the criteria of being out of patent, and respecting visual art copyright: Good Enough

Clones that then improve on the original even in a small way: Very Good

Clones that blatantly rip off a currently available product, with no permission, no changes, no improvements, with zero effort: Bad

Using existing circuit designs as a basis for a functional semi-clone that’s really pretty much a clone, but built from the ground up from the basics: Great

Doing the above, and adding upon the design, and making improvements: Spectacular

Cloning something based on a schematic that you stole of a currently produced item, and proceeding even after the original designer asked you not to: Shitty at Best

Asking permission of the original designer before you make a derivative work, and being met with a response like “I can’t really stop you, and I don’t know why you’d want to use my old designs in the first place. Please just don’t use my panel art.”: Well, it happens, and most people don’t seem to mind.

(That last one was a response that one cloner received from Don Buchla several years back )

[ccr]

What I don’t get is that B. with all its questionable practices has actually been quite innovative and groundbreaking, for example in live sound with the X32 and more recently with the Wing, which brings a completely different paradigm to live mixing. Are these just different divisions in the group? How does it come that they engage in so blatant and uninspired copying on the one hand and advance quite brillant and disruptive ideas on the other?

[J3RK]

Edit: Deleted. I was rambling a bit.

[synththeory]

In the grand scheme of things it boils down to two things:

1. Who we choose to support with the money we earn
2. Did those companies leave a legacy of good?

Lets face it all this nostalgia for old instruments that are unavailable but for the odd ebay auction is a market that someone with the means to do it was bound to capitalise on.

The modern world has this story over and over and over, goes much much deeper than afew synths

[dobermate]

Me thinks all threads fuelling on polarisation hurt us more than we think in this community, but what do I know.

Anyone asked about Tom’s opinion yet?

[sabana]

Phew thats a relief then!

[Petajaja]

I agree that this topic maybe causes pointless divide between people here but at the same time, I wonder how much of an influence people talking about it here and on other forums had in Youtubers making videos about the subject? any if any, is it not potentially a good thing in the music community as we’re talking about the future of what we all do?

I don’t know tbh, I feel like often interactions like these are more flexing than anything as most people come away from things like this with their own opinions reinforced regardless. Also this topic probably has been done to death at this point and the totality of all the bad that Behringer has done so far is probably contained within this thread along with all the justifications conceivable for them haha

Lots of interesting people on this forum though!

[olelovold]

Mr. B is a bully. I thought Benn challenged him in a very good way. Glad to see him being called out for his behaviour. Of course some people will defend and enable bullies, that’s just how life goes.

[ghostbuddy]

There’s a pretty big difference between enabling and defending a bully and defending a company that sells cheap clones of more expensive products.

[lemons]

@olelovold

Mr. B is a bully. I thought Benn challenged him in a very good way. Glad to see him being called out for his behaviour. Of course some people will defend and enable bullies, that’s just how life goes.

Synth elitists are bullies too, they bully people who like Behringer gear. Of course some people will defend and enable bullies, that’s just how life goes.

[mpluis]

Dont go into this trap. its guarded by 2 Uli´s Rottweilers.

[Fin25]

I like some Behringer gear.

Uli Beringer’s (and, by extension, his company’s) behaviour has made him look like a knob and put me off buying any of their gear. Of course, there is always room for redemption.

These are my thoughts. They seem to be broadly similar to Benn’s thoughts in his two videos.
Responding to those thoughts with “but I like Behringer gear” and such is missing the point.

What I really want to know, as someone who until quite recently defended Behringer myself, is what those defending Behringer actually think about the harassment of Peter Kirn, the excessive and aggressive litigation and the whole “copyright facts” sillyness, all of which made it impossible for me to carry on defending them without feeling that I was defending that behaviour.
We all know you like their synths, a lot of us do too, but I’d like to hear an actual defense of their behaviour, instead of deflecting onto worn out arguments about build quality and capitalism.

Not giving a shit about a company’s behaviour is a legitimate answer, if that’s really how you feel.

[mpluis]

Yes that´s the facts, not a hardware problem, is a stance in the industry problem.

[Unifono]

@lemons

Synth elitists are bullies too

sounds to me like something a synth elitists elitist would say
this discussion goes nowhere. Last 100 posts are on endless repeat.

[olelovold]

@lemons

Synth elitists are bullies too, they bully people who like Behringer gear.

Even if this was true, two wrongs don’t make a right. But it isn’t, nobody’s bullying you, they’re calling out mr. B for being a dick. And rightly so.

@ghostbuddy

There’s a pretty big difference between enabling and defending a bully and defending a company that sells cheap clones of more expensive products.

It’s not about the clones though, it’s about the guy silencing critics through harassment and litigation, as has already been said countless times. You can enjoy their products and still condemn his bullying tactics.

[ghostbuddy]

Yes, of course. I’m not sure if anyone in this thread has actually defended the very shitty behaviour Uli has demonstrated lately? It’s not defending tho to say that it’s understandable that the price, quality and availability of their synths outweigh their shitty business practises for a lot of people.

[L4rs3rik]

This is going nowhere.