The BITWIG Thread

The Lounge Other Gear
1860

…was there…at node institute’s roundtable…yesterday eve…

since i’m also a noob, when it comes to all this visual content creating, i felt the need to go and see for myself…

last decade, i was priveledged enough, to work with a visual artist that really knew what he was doing…needed no scripts from others, was always able to write his very own bottomline code to achieve whatever needed to be achieved…

but in act 3 of the “tales of selfpromoting wonderland”, as we all can feel it, if ur a sonic creator, best case scenario is, ur better also be a visual creator at the same time…
not sooo much, if the mission is, to translate into room installations or stage shows with a narrative…but defenitly for all sorts of broadcasting into the new world of streaming meetsall sorts of social media…

but all what’s out there, when it comes to creating visual content of any kind, is by far not there, where daws are these days…
30 years ago, it needed quite some knowhow and nerdyness and passion and money to produce music…
those days are gone…nowadays the average bedroom producer can get there with just some time and will for gaining experience…
and bitwig was the last step to just be there by shortcut…
no matter what daw is ur first creator weapon of choice, fact remains, once u know, u just know, bitwig can do and it was never that easy and comfortable to create sonic content of any kind ever before…

…next challenge accepted…audio and visual content to become one is where we’re heading at…

so, yesterday, i complimented the bitwig team for THIS good move, implementing tdbitwig components are a great next step…
but by far, not what could be possible…
touch designer seems to be one of the 1st choice tools in visuals these days, as my mentioned old collegue also confirmed, but once u see it back to back, right next to bitwig, polygrid in particular, u know, what elegance and ease means, looks and feels like, compared to naked nerdyness…

so for now, we can remote sets of parameters of td and bitwig in both directions, but all that remains nothing but tedious…always ready to get lost in translation and the wilderness of math talks code and tongues…may the cpu be with u…

and that’s what i told them…but for now, bitwigs bucket list remains a promising but long one, before they really start to consider, to finally catch the chance to become that one and only real content creator mainframe tool box they could be…

4 Likes
1861

… @BassesAndPads …

…which stock filter plugin in bitwig are u asking about…

the standard filter that offers low pass, hi pass, band pass, each available in 2 or 4 pole, the sullen key that has hp,lp,bp each with six different cut shelves to choose from, the ld, the xd, the xp, the comb, the svg, all also with their various pre defined shelves to pick, or the mg, that mock of the classic moogish ladder one…?
or one of those which are always already integrated to the bw’s sampler and it’s various on board synth…?
:wink:

1 Like
1862

I have only tried the standard filter and is quite good. I also opened a grid device and messed with some filters in there but didn’t get too deep with that part of it. God there is so much to learn there.

Is there anything like the Slynk filter in ableton? I am pretty positive there is, I just don’t know how to make it.

1863

…when i left ableton behind, there was no slynk…

but if u got bitwig already at ur disposal, i’d say, don’t look for third party plugin filters for now…
it’s all in there already waiting for u…and always keep in mind, no matter how overwhelming it might seem at first…everything goes with/into/for/on everything…in case of doubts, there is always the interactive help module for each and everything in there…so just fool around with the endless options of modular sonic production…no other daw makes it that slick 'n easy fun, end of the day…

and if polygrid is too much at once, use the fx grid… :wink:

2 Likes
1864

I always forget about the interactive help. Great idea.

1865

Not a single filter has the character and quality of cytomic models or U-he fitlerscape. I use Bitwig daily, and I’m still using external filters for some things.

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1866

…everybody is constantly invited to think out of the box in this box…
if any combo of internal filteroptions is still not creamy or fleshy or gluey or breathy enough, how about some distortion or saturation nested in, anywhere in any signalchain, in front, or behind, or inbetween…and if u still miss the magic of analog imperfection, well, modulate some detailed parameter flubbering all over the place…

while sure, sometimes, only some dedicated third party plugin can do the trick for ur subjective taste…that’s totally fine, bitwigs unique sandbox solution will take care of it…

i personally, also spended too much money and distraction time on vst’s…
only to find out, end of the day, xo, shaperbox, some unfiltered audio stuff and soniccharges’ microtonic/syntplant combo remain as the last third party essentials, that can really add something to bw’s overall sonic equasion…

when it comes to sonic tools, last thing i really miss is straight forward physical modeling like reason did it with their object plugin…
some direct vocal/mic input to midi…
some dedicated bus glue tool, since abletons drum bus compressor is still a tasty weapon of it’s own kind…
and of course, the next level shit, when some sort of video treatment/functions/options get finally implemented…

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1868

Simply incorrect. There is a lot more the filter models in Cytomic the Drop and Uhe filterscape than that.

1869

…yup, at least half the industry is trying to sell u on that…

another point for bitwig… :wink:

they’ve teached me my final lesson after 3 decades of jumping through all the mind traps…

we all just cook with water…and the whole sonic universe is no expeption…

even the house of audible frequencies just follows a certain set of basic rules, no one can claim to reinvent…the big hunt for the next new thing has ended, once u just know…

@abluesky …sure, whatever u actually keep on thinking and suits u best…

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1870

I use Bitwig extensively, practically daily, and have been for over 3 years. It is simply incorrect to assert that the Bitwig native filters are equivalent to Cytomic and Uhe. You cannot build them in the Grid out of the modules either. I have spent years emulating analog character ITB. You cannot achieve the non-linearities with subtle randomizations, differences between R/L channels, although these do go a long way in capturing various pleasing aspects of the analog domain.

Precisely understanding how good sound is made, and how, when and why certain non-linear distortions are pleasing to the ear, is exactly how you and others would understand that models by Cytomic and U-he (for me, the new Filterscape models) are superior to the ones in Bitwig. And for the record, I love Bitwig.

6 Likes
1872

I believe the argument is, if your precisely understood the hows and whens of your favorite filter’s non-linearities, there wouldn’t be anything stopping you from reimplementing those in the grid given it’s flexibility in both modeling and inserting distortion.

Maybe you don’t have that understanding. Or maybe you do and it’s just not worth your time patching it up when there’s a plugin that does it for you. Those are both perfectly reasonable places to be.

But there’s nothing magic in Filterscape or Drop or any VST. It’s all just DSP, and Bitwig is pretty capable at that kind of DSP in particular.

1873

A cool example of this is the humanize effect in BW. I set it on every one shot sound I trigger and put a very small amount of jitter on it. It can really add some extra mojo to a drum pattern. Every DAW has a humanize but I love the way Bitwigs is setup. You can take a drum pattern and really make it sound super loose, which can be awesome if you want to go for that old school house sound that is never exactly on beat.

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1875

I love Bitwig and I agree that plenty can be done with it, but the Grid is not low-level enough to mimic the sort of stuff you can do in low-level DSP code. The next best thing is probably Reaktor core. I used to work with DSP audio software guys and this stuff is deep and complex, it’s goes far beyond adding some random movement to various parameters or a bit of distortion.

I agree with the point though, that you can go a very long way with a simple set of tools. I’m also in the position of seeing what I can squeeze out of Bitwig but it’s hard work to get to some of the sounds from some VST synths that have very sophisticated DSP under the hood to mimic analogue oscillators and filters etc.

I actually think that the real question is this - given that people were making great music 25 years ago with (relatively very basic) software do we actually need all the latest cutting-edge analogue modelled whatever? Probably not, but we all love our toys and there’s nothing wrong with that!

7 Likes
1876

This discussion about Bitwig native devices and VSTs is very timely for me, as I start to learn how to process vocals. This doesn’t seem to be an area filled with Bitwig tutorials (suggestions welcome!) and on the other hand it’s a topic with gazillion video tutorials that basically rely on commercial plugins.

Autotune set aside (I’m not interested), I have the suspicion that a lot can be achieved with Bitwig devices (de-esser, remove low end, use gates, basic static EQ, layering, chorus, reverb, delay…) but then there is (or seems to be) some crispness, body… that VSTs like https://slatedigital.com/fresh-air/ promise, and I wonder what’s the trick there.

1877

Fresh Air is an exciter. This kind of plugins is not just an EQ. Exciters use complicated techniques to create harmonics which aren’t presented in the source signal.
There are other techniques to achieve the similar effect. Before Fresh Air I used very high-passed reverb track with some processing on top of it. It sounds mostly like a hiss, but mixed with the main mix it adds good “air”.
With Fresh Air it’s just much faster (not a reverb, I mean “air” in the mix).

Stock plugins in most of DAWs are good enough to make a decent mix. Commercial plugins simplifies workflow and makes your work much faster.
Sometimes commercial plugins sound really good and you can’t recreate this particular sound with other tools. But often you can get close enough without them, and regular listener will not hear the difference.

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1878

…when it comes to crispyness, that’s all eq work, seriously…nothing but eq’s and resonant tipping points…and again, the combos and runningorders of such various devices in any signal chain…

but i agree, when it comes to vocal production, there’s still some improovement headroom left…
but for now, we got the most elegant and flexible comping function of all to be found in bitwig, for all sorts of audio recording…

pretty confident, we’ll see a next step in vocal/audio to midi processing soonish…
adding some dedicated physical modeling to the cake and we’re good to go anywhere…

anything else, i’m totally fine with whats already possible in bw, to make vocals shine/work in all sorts of ways, since most of serious vocal production is not daw related but classic recording and audioproduction know how…

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1879

Thank. This is exactly my point.

1880

As I said, I have been using Bitwig for now over three years. I along with others in my discord community are always trying to build from the bottom up, based on first principles. Cytomic and Uhe filters cannot be built in the grid, and bitwig’s filters are not in their “league.”

But I am more than willing to eat my words, admit my lack of understanding and know how if someone else can come up with a device chain and/or grid patch that can create filters on par with those mentioned.

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1881

I agree, you are talking about best in class (along with perhaps fabfilter) and I wouldn’t t expect to be able to build stuff of this quality in MAX even with Gen which lets you go much, much deeper than Bitwig.

Bitwig is a relatively simple drag and drop environment, more Modular than a programming environment. For me it’s useful and accesable…but I would be amazed if anyone can produce something in it that competes with the speed of C+ and genius developers! That said, Bitwig filters are pretty good and probably good enough for most people most of the time!

2 Likes
1882

I mean, I LOVE Bitwig. I’ve been petitioning them to license some Cytomic or Uhe models similar to what Ableton does.