Is a 2nd hand OP-Z a good choice to understand the spirit behind the XY and to see if I like the concept? Or is the difference so significant that I should better save the money and wait a few more months? Decisions, decisions …
Haha! Unfortunately the admins don’t find the humor in it and got flagged. Is the case still made by Bill Amberg?
The point maybe?
They’ve already had a lot of great and innovative ideas with the op-z. Now they’ve refined what worked and ditched what didn’t work. Not unlike what Elektron did with the digis. What kind of innovation are you missing?
And I completely disagree with your point regarding 4 bars, better sampling, and while we’re at it, all stereo, completely revamped file management, RAM and storage capacity, revamped song and scene modes, pattern per track, a multisampler, master saturator, send and return, and so on and on. These all add up to a completely different instrument than what the op-z is. If you’re still fine with the op-z and think you’re 90% there on what the OP-XY does, that’s cool, be happy and hold on to that because you just saved yourself 2300€ 
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Opz had the master saturator and patterns per track though, jfyi…
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Less than 5 minutes into this video, Will, mate, pragmatic? Those fonts ain’t. Dogmatic, should be the word choice. 
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Where those added in a firmware update? It’s been a while since I had the op-z.
I remember a one knob master compressor and a master chorus. And I’m pretty sure there’s just 16 patterns per project on the op-z, not per track. I also can’t find what you claim in the manual.
Trying to find something from a TE manual is rather challenging
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Only when it’s not there 
They literally shipped OP-XY with an incomplete manual. I don’t get this constant TE apologetic responses lol
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lol that was what I was referring to 
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I think the op-z and op-1 were much more innovative. The XY is (explicitly, I would say) an improved version of the op-z, much like the DT II is an improved version of the original. Or any new version of anything from Roland or Korg.
So improvements? Yes, provided you like b&w. Innovation? Very little, in my opinion. What’s new? Not synths. Not step components. Not punch-in fx. Not the ‘brain’ (for some of us it will always be the ‘master track’). Not the fx. Not the interface. 4 bars? Give me a break. Stereo? Come on. There’s plenty of boxes out there with many things. Maybe the maestro? Kinda.
It’s all a bit different, but nothing surprising. I can see why people may like it, but just doesn’t cut it for me. I expect more from these guys.
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I didn’t realize you meant multiple patterns per track, I didn’t know it had that or see why anybody would want that honestly… but the saturator is somewhere… maybe in the mixer page? Or the master page… I forget but both had some extra effects and it was one of them.
Going crazy with sequences and patterns:
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Let’s say on the op-z, you’ve got 2 cool patterns with sequences on all tracks going on. But you want to try out how the kick drum sequence from pattern 1 would sound in pattern 2. On the op-z, you can copy paste this manually. On the OP-XY can freely combine any pattern on any track with any pattern on any other track and save that as a scene. With just the twist of a knob. And not only for the audio tracks, but the aux tracks (tape, brain, punch in, send fx) as well. Endless combination possibilities. Hope that helps you a bit in seeing why this is a stand-out feature.
Edit: And yes, the master track on the op-z had a one knob chorus and a one knob drive. As well as a one knob compressor on the mixer page. But that’s not the same as the master saturator on the OP-XY, which allows for adjusting gain, clipping, tone and mix independently.
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Yeah, I don’t know. If that’s what you want to think without ever trying one in person, go ahead.
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mine should hopefully be here on fritag. had to jump thru a few g4m hoops, but the sound lads on the phone seem to have got me one from their German warehouse. woop 
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There’s never been such a complete, compact/truly portable device with all day battery, in a beautiful durable enclosure. And that’s without any future updates. I think that’s the innovation. Because they already did those unique innovations in separate products doesn’t diminish this product. If anything, it justifies the price. It could be your only hardware without any/many compromises. To get the multisampler and tape engine costs $900 CAD alone in a Chompi for example. A DT II, DN II, and Octatrack II to get a sampler, synth, and mangling/scene FX respectively is another $5k CAD, and those aren’t battery powered. The price makes a lot of sense even if the hardware only costs them $400 or whatever to produce.
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The OP-Z is a great place to start if you want to learn if you’d enjoy the OP-XY or not. A lot of it is very similar or the same. The main differences are in how projects/songs are managed, the fidelity of samples, the increased ppqn, and a lot of subtle differences.
Mostly what you’d be trying to figure out is how you like the 16 step sequencer workflow, it’s mostly the same with a few differences/missing features (hopefully addressed in a future update). The step components and punch in fx are very similar, though not 100% the same… but you’ll know if you appreciate that approach or not… honestly my biggest issue with the OP-Z was just the limited storage… it is very tight… and the manufacturing issues with the bend, knobs popping out, and double triggers on buttons… those stink… but shouldn’t be an issue with the OP-XY.
I do believe the mantra of “The OP-Z is faster because it has fewer options” is mostly correct, but also remember, nobody has really had an OP-XY in their hands for enough time to build up the muscle memory and fast workflows. Give it time… I am sure people will catch up.
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Yeah it’s gonna be different strokes for different folks… XY has good practical features I think in a way that almost no other TE devices have. Stuff I couldn’t get over with the opz, op1 or ko2 to make them devices I wanted to use all the time.
It’s weird to suggest that TE should just sit on the ideas they developed with the OPZ, and it’s crazy unrealistic to expect the wheel to be reinvented with each new product.
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