Tax changes for eBay etc... sellers 2024

As of January 1st 2024, online platforms such as eBay are required to share information about your sales with relevant tax authorities. This change was mentioned in the Downsizing Your Hardware 2024 thread but I felt it merited its own topic as it’s something I’ve been looking into this year and I figure some people here might be caught unawares. The short of it is that if you have sold anything on eBay or elsewhere, you might need to declare your sales for tax purposes depending on what you sold and your local tax rules.

This is an international initiative and affects sellers in many countries but I’m based in the UK so that’s what I’ll be talking about in this post. Perhaps sellers from elsewhere could chime in with information pertaining to their area?

My intention is for this topic to be a practical source of information as there are many online sellers here - and not a political discussion on whether this is a good idea or the philosophical merits of taxation - so please bear that in mind in your replies.

So, for UK sellers, what’s changing?

Some business operate via online sales platforms without declaring their income and thereby evade tax. It used to be the case that HMRC would have to request information on specific sellers from websites like eBay in order to investigate this matter, but now platforms are required to automatically share information about you as a seller if you’re selling 30 or more items a year OR have total earnings over the equivalent of €2,000 (currently around £1,700). If either of those criteria are met, eBay etc… will tell HMRC about your earnings, which could of course encompass anyone who’s sold a couple of expensive synths or people who regularly sell off old equipment.

What does this mean for YOU? Well the first thing you might like to try is HMRC’s online checker. Check if you need to tell HMRC about additional income - GOV.UK

As an example, here’s how it went for me. I sold a few thousand pounds of used gear on eBay in each of the tax years 2022/23 and 2023/24, so I’ll start by selecting “Sold goods or services.”

Everything I sold was a personal possession.

2

None of the items I sold were individually worth more than £6000.

You do not need to pay tax on personal possessions you sold for less than £6,000.

BUT whether or not you were selling “personal possessions” or whether you were trading (selling items for a profit) is crucial. HMRC has some guidance on this matter with examples. Selling online and paying taxes - information sheet - GOV.UK

I was a little concerned as to whether I had interpreted this correctly so I decided to book a consultation with a Chartered Accountant to get a professional opinion on whether I needed to file a personal tax return for the year 2022/23. In my case, it’s pretty easy to show that I purchased all of my equipment for my own personal use, and comparing the original invoices to my eBay sales, every item clearly sold for a loss as part of a general clear out. My accountant has advised me that I do not need to declare my eBay activity, and that if HMRC contacts me in due course, my documentation and relatively low volume of sales makes it clear that I was selling personal possessions and that this will be sufficient for them to cancel their request to file a return.

THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE SAME FOR YOU. Do you have a very high volume of sales? Have your sales made a profit? Some non-exhaustive examples I can think of that could affect sellers who post here:

  • if you bought a run down bit of gear, repaired/refurbished it, and sold it for a profit, that would likely be seen as trading rather than selling a personal possession
  • similarly, if you bought a lot of one particular piece of equipment, modded it, and then sold those modded units for a profit, that would likely be seen as trading also
  • if you sold a synth for more than £6000 you may need to pay capital gains

I have done my best to relay my understanding as clearly as possible but I am not a qualified accountant. If you have any doubts, it might be worth booking an appointment with a Chartered Accountant for yourself to discuss your eBay/Reverb/etc… sales with someone who understands how the rules should be interpreted. You might also want to make sure you have any relevant documentation such that if HMRC does contact you, you can show that you did not need to declare your sales.

38 Likes

This is a great post and something I have been thinking about, thank you for taking the time and giving a great breakdown of what it means :+1:t4: - I think this just might mean that I will buy less stuff so I don’t have to sell stuff anymore - or just move stuff on using this forum for a good price to decent people - I do wonder though if this is going to drive the prices of things up as people will have to start accounting for the tax they will have to pay for selling.

4 Likes

I do wonder though if this is going to drive the prices of things up as people will have to start accounting for the tax they will have to pay for selling.

I would imagine this won’t make much of a difference as if you’re selling (in the UK) anything classified as a personal possession, you wouldn’t need to declare for tax any item below £6000 anyway. That said, I suspect this might encourage more sales on places like Facebook Marketplace where you’re dealing with a buyer directly rather than through a platform like eBay that needs to report to HMRC.

1 Like

Yeah, lately I’ve had a lot more luck dealing with people directly on forums/FB marketplace for music related stuff anyway. I suspect this will only do more to highlight that.

Top post all round, very useful stuff - thanks for taking the time to write it all up!

1 Like

I’m currently in the somewhat ironic position of trying to sell all my gear to pay a tax bill without paying unnecessary tax on it.

Having looked into it, I’ve come to pretty much the same conclusion as @ramcmdr, that I can eBay away pretty confident that it won’t end with me being declared a trader and having to cough up, mostly because I’ve never really made a profit and I’m not selling in enough volume.

I’m also struggling to see HMRC being all that keen on wasting huge amounts of resources getting all of us to fill out tax returns come next January for no gain. I don’t think this change is being made to target the likes of us, but it only takes one little Hitler with a clipboard to cause trouble I guess…

It reminds me a bit of when me and a mate used to do the odd car boot sale and the occasional HMRC officer would do the rounds trying to get people to fill out tax returns. They were a lot more enthusiastic with some people than others, and it was obvious to anyone who the “traders” were at those sales.

I think the main takeaway from it is to make sure to keep records of what you’re buying and selling, just in case.

It’s definitely had an effect on eBay though, it’s like the Sahara over there right now.

5 Likes

I really never used ebay, but Kleinanzeigen quiete frequently. Dont you have a similar platform in the UK? I just searched for an Analog Heat 2nd hand, and there were quiete a bit of offerings available. I wonderd why the MK2 is exchanging hands for 600€ already. It seems that its not such an essential device for many people.

At the end of the day, this is primarily geared towards the thousands of people trading away on eBay and, consciously or not, avoiding paying tax. You would need to be selling at £’s/quanities significantly higher than what 99.999% of us currently do so I’m fairly confident the majority of us in the UK will fall under the “ignore this” banner. And that’s coming from a qualified CA!

This bit is interesting though. Having once bought a broken Voyager RME for about £300 and then getting it fixed up before selling on for much more I’d feel confident in arguing to HMRC that I didn’t repair/refurbish with the intent on selling (which is true). If I were doing that regularly though, then that’s where the trade point kicks in. If anything, my example would possibly fall under capital gains tax - of which there is an annual allowance.

Chances are, HMRC will get access to records and will target the top few % based on volume of transactions and £’s. It’ll be like the equivalent of regulators going after primary suppliers of dodgy firesticks rather than making any meaningful effort to go around slapping the wrists of the thousands of folks using one at home.

3 Likes

Cash is king :money_with_wings:

2 Likes

I wonder how much this ay impact eBay (and Reverbs) business model, I can see people thinking twice about using monitored services.

Make sure to keep a paper trail: receipts, e-mails, anything to prove payment for an item. Likelihood is that you will be selling at a loss, especially if it was purchased new. This expense can be claimed on a self-assessment tax return (should you need to do one) and will then result as a loss, meaning it could even result in your overall taxes being lower for the year. Obviously IANAA(ccountant), but I have been doing my own taxes with HMRC for 12+ years and have learned a few things over that time. If you drive to collect something you later sell, that petrol can count as a business expense. Postage on sending an item: business expense. Buying Sellotape and bubble-wrap: business expense. Use their own system against them!

Not if you buy something and want to sell it later on and claim the purchase as an expense.

1 Like

I genuinely don’t think it will (or should) impact your average Joe.

It’s been a long time since I looked at capital gains but I’m sure there are fair market value adjustments so even for those of us lucky enough to own some old vintage instruments that could sell for a gain of more than £6k (£3k from next tax year by the way) there would be avenues to argue against potential tax.

The big thing here is what constitutes a trade. I’ve bought and sold maybe a dozen musical things over the past year. No danger that can or would be deemed a trade.

If you’re modding gear regularly and charging for the service then you may have an issue but buying and selling an Octatrack or whatever 5 or 6 times isn’t going to get HMRC on your case and nor should you feel obliged to start doing personal tax returns.

2 Likes

They fine you if you file late, so there’s some gain to be had on their part…

So if you buy something for 7K and then sell it for 6K can you claim a capital gains loss? You could with shares in the past…then offset it against a future capita gain.

Capital Gains Tax only applies if you made a profit on the item , and personal possessions, including machinery, with an expected life of under fifty years are also excluded.

Also, download OpenOffice and learn how to keep a spreadsheet. Doing this has turned my day-long tax return hell-trip into a 30 min box-filling exercise.

Yeah, but even if they fined every single one of us for basically fuck all tax liability, they’d still be doing a hell of a lot of work for pretty much no reward.

Other than the odd jobsworth, I just don’t see HMRC having the time, resources or inclination to go after any but the most obvious (and therefore profitable) pisstakers.

3 Likes

Yeh…we cant even get tax off Google, Apple. Microsoft etc, they are too clever for the tax man, so lets go after the guy who makes and sells oak eurorack cases instead…

1 Like

The bottom line of this is money laundering. People are buying gear with dirty money and its being going on a very long time. Not just musical equipment but jewellery paintings etc. They are now clamping down on this. Unfortunately the genuine honest people are paying the price for the scammers. Gold sellers have had to declare any sales above £5K for a while now. Gold was often used for money laundering.

1 Like

Why don’t they just take their money to the launderette like the rest of us?!

1 Like

You forgot to add the /s

Crapto, that’s a money laundromat.

1 Like

We had to fill out a land owner form, because they want to recalculate the value of the land - but they already had all the data, we were just forced to resend it again, so they dont have to dig up all their existing records. Its really a shame.

Why do we have to send them this trader data ? It would be possible that the plattform makes it transparent if a certain threshold of selling is crossed? They really avoid transparency, because knowlege is power. So if you dont know, you are powerless - and that is a thing in their mind.

(I had some insight in previous roles i did. It really felt like a Kafka book, but IRL.)