Sysex backup problems, A Keys to Mac, using TransferApp

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

Hi

I’m having some connection probs between my mac and my (old) Analog Keys.

I’d be really grateful if anyone can guide me through this.

I have an old Analog Keys (firmware not updated since maybe 2014), which says on startup that it is running firmware 1.21

My intention (ideally) is to start of by doing a sysex backup of a project or two (because I’m assuming I will lose these if i upgrade the firmware).

THEN, assuming i get my mac and my A keys recognising each other, I’ll update the firmware.

I have a nice new up to date Mac mini.

SO… a lot of the support web pages (and the manual) tell me to install Elektron software called C6 to undertake these tasks.

However, I cannot find this software offered for download on the current Elektron support pages.

Instead, I see that a new app called Elektron Transfer is available.

I have installed this on my mac.

I THEN went to my Analog Keys, and went into to System > USB Config and set that to USB MIDI ONLY, as instructed by the Akeys manual backup guidance

When I connect to my Mac via USB, and run Elektron Transfer, and try and get Transfer to recognise my Analog Keys, I get the following screen on Elektron Transfer (see image linked below)

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It appears to acknowledge that I have an Analog Keys connected, because (without me doing anything), the MIDI in and MIDI out boxes refer to Electron Analog Keys in 1, and Elektron Analog Keys out 1

But, when I press “Connect”, i just get an eternally rotating progress wheel (pictured), and the word “Loading” in the box at the top.

Can anyone advise me from here?

Thanks very much in advance

#2

It’s advisable to backup projects for sure. However, it’s not a certainty that an upgrade will create issues, I’ve never had an issue upgrading. But as you are already out of step with upgrading it would be a good idea to backup as belt and braces

If there’s an issue then perhaps try putting the device in USB audio or OB mode and have OB off, just using one program at a time

If the old OS is too far back to work seamlessly try using System librarian to backup and then to upload. It will be more manual than transfer, but there are discussions on using this on here already

#3

Thanks very much, i will install Sysex Librarian now and see if that does it !

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#4

Alas, sadly no luck with Sysex LIbrarian.

When I run it, i get a similar thing… it appears to acknowledge that the A Keys is connected,
because it offers A keys as an option to connect to.

But when you try and activate the software , either by presseing ‘record one’ or ‘record many’, you just get an eternal message saying ‘waiting for sysex message’.

This is happening even while the A Keys is saying ‘sending’, when I have gone into SYSEX DUMP> SYSEX SEND> WHOLE PROJECT> and got “sending”

This happens whether OB is selected, or USB MIDI is selected in SYSTEM > USB Config.
There is no option for setting USB to USB Audio, at least, not in the SYSTEM > USB Config menu on the A Keys

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I also throught I 'd just risk it and do an OS Upgrade without backup.

So i restarted the Elektron Transfer app (after closing the Sysex Librarian app), and selected OS Upgrade in System menu.

I just get an eternal message on the A keys saying “OS UPGRADE WAITING FOR SYSEX”

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hmmmm

Seems like there may be some more fundamental issue to do with how my A KEYS and Mac are connected

Can there be issues with the type of USB cable you use?

Can we be assured that the Elektron Transfer app undertakes all the tasks that C6 used to?

#5

possibly, or port, but seems unlikely if the device is recognised

OB mode wouldn’t be advised when trying SyxLib(Snoize)

Snoize also make a very good midi monitor, hook that up and see if you are getting Notes, param changes etc coming through - try exporting a sound or kit etc and see if the basics are working

Then maybe look to see if teh A keys is showing up in Audio Midi Setup (Midi view) properly … maybe try Midi from it in other apps etc - so you can get to teh bottom of the source issue

It could be within your grasp to resolve it, but all these steps will help figure out what is behind it

Have you looked through all the system/midi options

It’s often a good idea to swap to a new project (save current) then try from there as a glitch can be project based in some cases for other issues

#6

I don’t believe it does, but it offers other benefits

No idea what the support situation is for ventura - but C6 won’t run on that

If you have other computer platforms there may be quicker paths to upgrading, e.g. Pi/Linux etc

#7

Thanks for this advice

I installed SNOIZE MIDI monitor as you suggested.

Interestingly, it does log lots of activity…such as keyboard strokes, modulation wheel movement. Also, when I used Sysex Librarian and told it to send, or ‘play’ , the Analog Keys OS update file, it logs a load of activity that suggests something is being sent

But there’s absolutely no acknowledgement of this by, and neither does the Transfer app acknowledge any link, and the Transfer App wont actually allow me to move to the Transfer Page in the app,

As you may have realised, i’m not experienced at MIDI.,
Perhaps I could just share with you the settings in the MIDI config menu on my Analog Keys…can you spot anything amiss.
Given my minimal MIDI experience, it could be something pretty basic that i’m getting wrong!

here they are - ( i realise things like joystick config are not relevant but i’m showing the whole MIDI Port config menu anyway)

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I’ll also keep trying some of your other suggestions if i can … at the moment I’m stumped on doing anything like transfering a sound or kit, because i can’t really get a connection running between any software and the AK

Thanks again for you suggestions

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#8

The device will accept certain MIDI info ‘on the fly’ but i believe it may be a requirement to put the device in OS reception mode - probably in a sysex/system menu - can’t recall the old config menus

Interestingly i tried doing an update recently on a machine without Transfer and i had issues (one OS down from Ventura) ended up putting Transfer on but i was surprised, so i think i might need to investigate why this stopped being an option - it should be fine - Sysex Librarian has a setting somewhere to make transfers ‘safer’ but the Elektrons over USB don’t need the sending program to send messages with any gaps - so if it’s got that setting in it still dial it back and ensure device is in OS reception Mode - it’s very obvious if not found already

#9

Success !

I now have it all working.

I was nearly ready to give up, or have a little weep, or both.

I couldn’t find any specific references to “OS reception mode” etc
or any menus that i hadn’t seen.

However, your advice prompted me to check and re-check every single option available in the MIDI config,
and what it comes down to is that you have to make sure that you have ‘MIDI + USB’ checked in

MIDI Config > MIDI Port > Output To > MIDI + USB
MIDI Config > MIDI Port > Input To > MIDI + USB

Although this may seem obvious to an experienced user, as in, MIDI + USB (i now see) means 'use USB for MIDI"… i had assumed that this selection was prompting you to chose between using the USB rather than the actual MIDI lead port. (the other options being just MIDI, or just USB)

[Duh !]

However, none of this is very intuitively clear to an inexperienced MIDI user… especially considering that many other elements of the MIDI send and receive functionality do work spontaneously (just not file data send and receive)

Also, any inexperienced user can also get caught out because Analog Keys seems to default to a different set of options for “Output to” and “Input to” inside MIDI config when you update the OS, and perhaps in other circumstances also. (update the OS, and it’s back to ‘Output to MIDI’ etc)

But that’s all good

Now on to my next challenge … getting OB up and running : ) [EDIT sorted, that was easy]

Thanks again for your helpful guidance

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#10

It sounds like you got this figured out. But I remembered there were some helpful tips on Elektron’s site about upgrading AK from older OS versions. Do check out https://www.elektron.se/us/download-support-analog-keys

and the section labeled “Backing up and restoring […]” which seems to point out some of the same issues you had.

I remember Transfer doesn’t have full functionality when using earlier Analog Keys/Four OS versions, so it is necessary to take these other steps (using raw sysex dumps) to perform the upgrade. After the upgrade, Transfer works well. (I remember needing to name or rename my device in Transfer after the upgrade too.)

#11

To clarify, nowadays saving all sounds and projects to a computer with Transfer is enough to have a complete backup of the entire device, right? Including sound pools, settings and everything? Or must I export extra stuff as sysex files or anything?

Edit: I found an outdated article about c6, but then Mario from Elektron got back to me by mail and said that Transfer is indeed a full backup of everything these days.