Switching programs on the pulse 2

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#50

Oh- now I get the microtiming! The PC message is effectively sent ā€˜on gridā€™ while the cc message gets sent just before.

Iā€™m not sure where @PeterHanes found the cc#32 but itā€™s obviously right! (Itā€™s the same on the MPC so I guess itā€™s standard).
So Program Change messages are different completely from cc messages? At least I know that now :slight_smile:

I guess the feature request for Elektron is to enable p-lock of the program change message?

I have emailed Waldorf asking for an updated list of programs and banks for their presets- the old list misses alot of the new programs and doesnā€™t tell you what banks they are in.

Thanks so much- I think we gave it a good shot!

1 Like
#51

Maybe here. Iā€™d like an official Warldorf sourceā€¦

Midi messages you can send with OT (correct me if Iā€™m wrong!) :

Note On*
Control Changes**
Program Changes
Pitchbend (MSB only)
Channel Aftertouch
Transport (Start / Stop)
Midi Clock
ā€¦?

*OT Note Off are actually Note On with value 0, like many facturers, but some others use Note Off, which is a different message.

**Bank message is actually a CC0 Control Change.

1 Like
#52

Something @ericd should know if you havenā€™t figured it out already is that the OT only sends the midi tracks PC when a pattern linked to a new part becomes active. It wonā€™t send it just by muting/unmuting tracks. It will also send out the midi tracks ccā€™s and pcā€™c when you double stop. I donā€™t have my OT for testing but maybe if the tracks are muted the pc wonā€™t be sent, so thatā€™s why whatever track is unmuted upon double stop thatā€™s what the pulse playsā€¦ Also as sezare said the OT doesnā€™t send a cc unless itā€™s different than the last one sent on that track, to conserve bandwidthā€¦

I donā€™t know if it will send pcā€™s just by changing part in a pattern, no OT handy for testingā€¦ Might workā€¦

Edit: I guess you figured it outā€¦ Oh well, just recappingā€¦ :smile:

3 Likes
#53

Yes, mostly (painfully) figured all that out!

What I still donā€™t understand is why the OT canā€™t send a new program change message from a second (or third or eighth) track, even if you send a bank change cc before it!! It can only send a PC message on one track per pattern/part- why? I also donā€™t quite get why this does become possible by using a midi event processor, but it might dawn on me eventually :thinking:

#54

It can send send 9 PCā€™s per partā€¦ One for the sync menu option if itā€™s activated, and one for each midi track. They all have to be on different channels, if you have multiple midi tracks on one channel sending PC, the device on that channel will only respond to one of themā€¦

1 Like
#55

With a midi processor you can convert cc to pc and send them on any step of any trackā€¦

#56

Think of the patches on midi devices and the machine/sample of audio tracks as a group of 16 sounds/voices.

When a pattern linked to a new part becomes active the midi track PCā€™s basically just load 8 patches to devices from midi tracks just like the audio tracks load 8 machines/samples.

Itā€™s still very useful if not per step just to be able to recall the correct patches of 8 midi devices that go with your 8 audio tracksā€¦

1 Like
#57

This is what confuses me. With the MPC2000XL as the controller, one midi device (i.e. the Pulse 2) will respond to program changes on each track. I can effectively have 16 sounds from the Pulse2 in a sequence (pattern)- so I donā€™t understand why the OT canā€™t manage 8.

#58

Itā€™s because the OT sends them at the same time, only when a pattern linked to new part becomes activeā€¦ If you send a device two or three PCā€™s at once your only gonna end up on one of themā€¦

The 2000xl must behave differently, sending them when tracks are unmuted perhapsā€¦

#59

I guess I donā€™t understand why the OT is designed that way. Why isnā€™t it possible to send PC messages on each step, or at least a seperate PC on each track? What advantage is there to it being limited in this way?

I donā€™t know- I didnā€™t have to do anything too tricky (muting/unmuting etc) on the MPC2000XL, just send a cc#32 and a program number on a step. The MPC does seem to send the cc message and PC messages in a consecutive order (even though they are on the same step) and you can set this order- so the cc#32 has to be first then the PC change. Each track can be used to trigger a different sound on the Pulse.

EDIT_ In fact I just tested something and it goes further. The MPC can send a new PC on each STEP and the Pusle will respond with the corresponding sound- giving an almost unlimited potential.

1 Like
#60

Per step is even better than upon track launch/unmutingā€¦ Some other Elektrons can do per step PC, OT can not. I tried to explain a theoretical concept of the OT midi track PC paradigm a few posts up. There is no advantage to this over per stepā€¦

Just to be clear though itā€™s not just one track PC, if you have 8 different midi devices set to different channels and 8 OT midi tracks on those channels set to send PC, all 8 will switch patch when the pattern/part becomes activeā€¦

This is just how it isā€¦

2 Likes
#61

Thanks Mike- I do understand thatā€™s how it is- I just donā€™t understand why thatā€™s how it is! Why that decision was made for the OT design. It really seems an unneccessary limitation - for example, you canā€™t set up a ā€˜kitā€™ on an external synth.

#62

MD, OT ancester, have plockable PC, even lfo.
Regression.
Midi processor ! :slight_smile:

1 Like
#63

I literally just won an ebay auction 1 minute ago for a midi solutions event processor plus :slight_smile:

OT MKII - Sending Program Changes
#64

Cool, count on me. I have many scripts easy to upload with a midi interface.
And I recently found a crazy powerfull trick with the crossfader and EPP. Canā€™t tell more. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#65

By the way, for any interested Pulse 2 owners, Waldorf support sent me a user-made updated list of patches for the factory soundset. It lists the 400+ patches by both number and by category, and there are pdf and xls versions. Feel free to PM me if you want a copy.

5 Likes
#66

Yes, the MIDI specification for Bank Changes messages has two segments, making use of both CC 0 and CC 32 to allow a very large number of program Banks. Many synths with only a few banks respond only to CC 32 but Elektron unfortunately chose to only implement CC 0.

Yes, Program Change is a different type of message from Control Change.

3 Likes
#67

I followed @sezare56 's suggestion and just took delivery of the MIDI Events Processor Plus. 15 minutes after opening it and connecting to a USB-MIDI interface on my computer, I have programmed it and connected it to my set up. I now have an OT that can send Program Change messages per step! :heart_eyes:

2 Likes
#68

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: More than per step with lfo, or arp if you map pc to notes.

2 Likes
#69

You can do a LSB/MSB bank change in OT, but it needs to happen simultaneously with a part change:

(Apologies if this was already mentioned in the thread.)

1 Like