(Fixed - bad CC) Super annoying midi issue [digitakt]

Elektron Gear Digitakt
#1

[FIXED]: The midi CC values where bad within the digitakt. Full write-up at bottom

My Digitakt based setup is all jacked up. When sending midi sequences the notes will end up stuck with this muted sound (almost like plucking).

I think it usually happens when hitting stop, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it in other situations. It does this to multiple synths, specifically debugging my Juno DS 88 and HydraSynth.

The hydra tends to go back to normal when changing patches, but the DS might not (I think they just might have different patch behavior).

Any way suffice it to say I’m pretty frustrated, but somethings going on from a midi perspective.

Note: Edit and change history moved to after the fix

[FIXED]: The midi CC values where bad within the digitakt. Therefore, the digitakt will send occasional messages, confirming they stay in the correct state; but these values were dangerous, and caused the synthesizer to be silent (“plucky” muted notes).

In the case where such a midi anomaly is found, it can be eliminated, by going to the CC screen and clearing all (you may have to reset the synth and/or patch), or selecting a good value. The behavior could be slightly different, effecting other parameters, so this can be tried every time the digitakt erroneously edits a patch (most synths have a little asterisk indicator

Some for of bus analyzer (midi analyer) can be used to debug such issue. In this case logic prox was used. A software instrument was used to record and playback messages, examining the different parameter changes. The CC values can then be checked on the digitakt.

Note I’m using a MIDI 1-4 thru box from the digi to synths, and the DS going to the input of the digi.

Edit: this seems to be happening when I stop a sequence now.

Edit 2: just to be clear I’m using a basic setup with one digi output going to one synth, no ins even. Hydra is easier because a patch change (which also clears) fixes it. The DS needs a power cycle, except some instruments work, this is a weird one.

Edit infinity: Thought I had a workaround, but it didn’t help… back to having problems with a project I thought was good

Obsolete final edit with workaround that didn’t work:
seems like my workaround for now is to abandon the project and see if it happens again. It’s worth pointing out that the “bad project” seems to be the only one that I “initialized”. Using “save as” until I figure this out. I’m not 100% sure if it was the project or sequence.

I haven’t necessarily given up, and am not completely satisfied with this solution. It would still be valuable to post any advice, I’ve reached out to Elektron, but no idea what their support is like (customer support is hard).

#2

Maybe this is related to DS waiting for a note-off signal that DT doesn’t send?

The solution would then be to program a note-off signal…

Please report here if this is of any help :slight_smile:

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#3

simplify the setup - remove everything except the DT and Juno

convince yourself one way or another where the issue lies - it’s probably not with the DT - you’re using the Juno into the DT via a thru and then back to the DS - sounds like a setup waiting to go wrong

find out by building up the complexity

and be mindful of which messages are eventually retransmitted or received when you have a ‘loop’ like that (potentially)

keep it simple, no usb, just one step at a time until you can recreate - then explore capturing midi in a midi monitor / daw etc to see if there’s anything amiss

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#4

There are no obvious fixes here, so you are going to have to do some troubleshooting.

To find the cause of the problem, you should test your gear in the simplest configuration, perhaps starting with the Juno DS 88 disconnected completely and the HydraSynth connected directly to the DT’s MIDI Out port.

The MIDI Thru box and even your MIDI cables are potential sources of problems, so take time to reintroduce only one thing at a time until you find what is causing the problem.

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#5

I will check cabling. This is exactly what I’ve done. It didn’t help, but it’s worth trying again.

#6

I wanted to put something in my OP, but this idea did occur to me. Yeah, I can go back and try again.

I tried taking everything off, and removing the potential midi loop, nothing seemed to help. At one point the only connection was between the digi and DS.

I actually have a fair amount of experience debugging embedded systems, so I understand where you’re coming from… I’m at the point where I might have to look for a bus analyzer (some daws like logic might have built in?), but that seems like a huge time waster.

The weird thing is that reseting patches tends to fix it in the hydra, but not the DS. Maybe they have different note behavior and the DS doesn’t reset on patch change…

I’m getting a lot of feedback to do normal hw/sw troubleshooting, which is very fair, and thank you all… was kinda hoping this was a widely known issue… will try harder with a different setup.

#7

Using? How? You mean with the digi, or something else?

#8

Forget my note-off lead for now, I had overlooked this.

What are you trying to achieve with this? Using DS as a MIDI keyboard for DT?

First simplify your setup, as said above: only DT MIDI out to DS MIDI in, see if you still have your problem, then report.

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#9

Yeah, so far it hasn’t helped yet, unfortunately. Mostly running one input, one output now, which is pretty sane (the input and output are separate keyboards). I’ve even done one output before (no input), which is the simplest setup possible.

I think it’s working on some projects, but others still cause problems. The behavior isn’t 100% consistant.

I’m gonna have to look at it over the weekend.

Edit: clarified a sentence

#10

Reply 2: Yeah I’ve been trying stuff. This is so weird the Digitakt is definitely sending something when I hit stop that’s messing it up… so strange. When I halt by hitting play it works okay. Before I was seeing it happen on digi button press or on start.

I am using one out to the Juno now.

#11

Hey, I think this actually works fine, at least in daw mode, which turns off local switch. In such case, there is no loop (and a midi loop seems fine anyway). I did do most of my debugging with a simpler setup, but ultimately a bad cc value was being sent.

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#12

Fixed just now, and actually have a definitive root cause on this bug. Think you’re on the right track though. It was a bad CC. Fix is to go to the CC var page and un-foobar your setup (eg. by shift-pressing each value to clear; could also set to a desired non-zero, “good number”)

Once you start mixing in CCs and PCs you’re increasing the likelihood of weird bug. In this case, it appears that a default configuration with all CCs set to zero, is poison, and the digitakt will keep sending poisoning messages at different times.

This is a good thing to keep in mind in the future, as I’m sure stuff like this is quite easy to do. Also, zero is not a safe value, despite being okay for mod wheel!

I do find it somewhat interesting that it seems zeroing default results in this behavior. Makes me wonder if there should be different default CCs; or maybe I’m mistaken about the default behavior.

All that said, having found an extremely definitive root cause for this one, I’m very happy :smiley:

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