Still Not Understanding Sample Chains

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#8

Ran into another mind block here…maybe you can give some quick insight?

When creating short sample chains in Ableton, I’m noticing that the resolution of which samples can be played on the down beat is very low

For example, if I create a sample chain that’s only 12 samples long (one sample per beat), I only get 3 useable slices. One for every 36 Start Points.

If I use 20 samples, I only get slices, one for every 10 Start Points.

In both cases, I dont seem to be getting the actual beginning of each sample that I use in Abelton. Using the correct integers on the STA param, the samples play in time, but not in the way I intended when I lined them up beat by beat in Ableton.

The only solution I can think of is to just not use small sample chains.

For my specific workflow, smaller sample chains are what I want. Mostly to avoid filling up all the Sound Pool slots too quickly and to have multiple samples play back on a single track.

Should I avoid small sample chains? Unless I’m missing something here, they seem pretty pointless for what I’m trying to do.

#9

I am sorry I can’t test this anymore as I sold my Rytm a while ago.
I usually had long sample chains.

Try to understand what is going on, for instance sampling your voice “one / two / three / …” and taking the time to analyze what’s wrong, why it’s not aligned with your slices.
It’s not astrophysics, you should understand why it’s not working as you understand it, or maybe, understand how it’s working exactly.

1 Like
#10

I’m not home to test, but I’m sure the problem comes from the way you arrange your hits in Ableton. On the Rytm side, there’s nothing tricky once you understood you have to use divisions of 120.

2 Likes
#11

There is something wrong, like you think you did good but you missed a spot.

If you have two samples, they must be of equal length if you want them to be starting at 0 and 60 respectively.
3 samples of equal length: starts at 0, 40, 80.

Works also with different sample sizes: say you have two samples, the length of the first one is the double of the second one: you would use 3 virtual divisions, so starting points at 0 and 80.

1 Like
#12

Assorted tips:

When you export the chain, remember to leave space at the end, so the final sample is the same length (including trailing silence) as the rest in the chain.

It shouldn’t matter what tempo you set in Ableton, only that the sounds are lined up on equal divisions/beats/bars.

Two samples: STA 0 and 60
Three samples: STA 0, 40, 80
Four samples: STA 0, 30, 60, 90
Five samples: 0, 24, 48, 72, 96
Six samples: 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100
Seven samples wont fit
Eight: 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 105
Nine wont fit
Ten: 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96, 108
Eleven wont fit
Twelve is easy
Thirteen and fourteen don’t fit
Fifteen: 0, 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, 80, 88, 96, 104, 112
Sixteen wont fit

4 Likes
#13

I’m sure you have your reasons for using Ableton, but just in case you aren’t aware, there are some dedicated tools for that, for example:

4 Likes
#14

I don’t have an AR anymore, so could you please check that the START parameter goes from 0 to 119 and not from 1 to 120? I am unsure.
If it’s the latter, you will have to correct your table. :sweat_smile:
If the former is good, I’ll have to fix my previous post.

Edit : OK, I checked the manual, it says

The extreme values of the range (0-120) are the very beginning and the very end of the sample, respectively.

So it’s like it’s 0-119 for your possible start values, if the manual is right and I understand correctly what it says.

I’ll get my post fixed.
Here is the tight table :slight_smile:

sample nb STA points
2 0, 60
3 0, 40, 80
4 0, 30, 60, 90
5 0, 24, 48, 72, 96
6 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100
7 n/a
8 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 105
9 n/a
10 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96, 108
11 n/a
12 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110
13 n/a
14 n/a
15 0, 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, 80, 88, 96, 104, 112
16 n/a
6 Likes
#15

Thanks so much for the amazing replies, everyone!

I have a hunch what my issue might be, I’ll have to test it out later.

Am I supposed to be exporting a wav file that has all 120 beats selected, even if I’m only making use of some of that space and not all of it? For example, when I make my short sample chains such as 12 or 24 samples per beat, I only highlight the samples I use and export that. Maybe that’s my issue?

@Octagonist
@LyingDalai
@chapelierfou

#16

Yeah, I’ll have to look into these. Thanks so much for the heads up! <3

#17

This is great, I was actually starting to write down my own graph last night, which was based on my own (probably) faulty sample chain creation. Thanks for saving me the work and giving me the real numbers that should line up if I’m doing it correctly!

#18

I think this is what I’m doing wrong. I only highlight and export the length/amount of samples that I use. Never thought about making all sample chains the sane length, regardless of how many samples are used.

#19

You don’t need to have every sample chain the same length.
You have to have samples of same length, that’s all.
So that the virtual divisions (STA points) are right on the attack of your samples.
I have been using the same long sample chains for a long time.
I tend to know them more and more, know which sample I need and I have everything available without having to look for it.
Maybe 120 samples is very big, but I strongly advise to go for relatively long chains rather than 5 or 6 samples.
Anyway, it’s the same trick every time : samples with the same length, so that the sample chain can be divided in a divider of 120.

#20

This. In bold. And highlighter

3 Likes
#21

If you do decide to give DigiChain a go, and want to use different grid sizes, you can Ctrl+Click on one of the slice grid option buttons to set a custom size e.g.:
image

image

image

Drop your samples into the list then press the Joined (Spaced) button to get files out all containing 24 slices, all slices are padded to the length of the longest sample in the list. If you have less than 24 samples, the last sample is repeated to ensure the chain is 24 slices long.

3 Likes
#22

This is correct. You have to make sure the final slice is the same length as the rest. If you trim down to the end of the waveform only, there’s a chance the samples wont line up when you wiggle the STA param on the Rytm.

2 Likes
#23

So for one of my tests, I had one sample chain that was 12 beats, and one that was 20 beats. I then highlighted just those samples and exported.

Each sample took up no more than 1 beat. Some samples were shorter than 1 beat, but never went over.

Screenshot 2023-04-20 at 2.15.21 PM
Screenshot 2023-04-20 at 2.15.21 PM2005×1240 349 KB

#24

Seems right. You need to make sure that the end of the section you’re exporting lines up with the very end of the final beat (i.e. drag the selection end or loop end marker to the following beat. If you have 12 samples, the selection end marker will be on beat 13.). This way, you have 12 equal chunks you can step through with the STA param.

2 Likes
#25

Amazing, I cant believe this might be what I missed. I’m literally going to try this right now I can’t wait!

1 Like
#26

Rather than highlighting the samples - use the loop bracket so the export only renders that portion of the timeline.

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image1040×426 41.5 KB

3 Likes
#27

I already said it, but OctaChainer takes care of all of this, +sample rate/bit depth.

6 Likes