Sound Design

[newgreyarea]

Hey,
So I’m starting this thread to hopefully get some ideas, hints, help making decent sounds with the internal synthesis on the AR. I’ve been fairly frustrated with this machine as I don’t feel that I can make anything all that special compared to any other synth I own or have owned int he 20+ years. I want to love it as I do like the sequencer but I’m finding that I just sample from my modular or old drum machines instead. I think that the A4 ruined my expectations as it could do much better drums than their actual drum machine.

I must be doing something wrong. That’s fine.I’d rather be wrong and be corrected than have wasted a bunch of money.

[ul]
[li]My kicks are ok. I find the best ones tend to just use a self oscillating filter. [/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]My snares are ugh. Just flabby and no oomf![/li]

[li]Hihats are pretty much a one sound affair. [/li]

[li]Toms are what I’d really like to see sound better.Seems like I’m only able to get space toms or a kinda generic Simmons sound(more like a Tama tbh)[/li]

[li]Clap is fairly cool. A little reverb goes a long way![/li]

[li]Cowbell is useless. Seriously. Why even have that?[/li]
[/ul]

Help me and maybe some others, please!

I want to get the most out of the internal synthesis without having to resort to samples all the time as making a sound on another synth, recording it, editing it, and transferring back to the AR is a buzz kill!!

So, tips for good kicks and toms would be awesome. Snares too! I’d be stunned if there is something that can be done with the cowbell or hihat.

[alfred]

that’s the reason why 80% of what you hear in most AR demos comes from the sampling engine. the analog sound engines really aren’t the strong part of the elektron analog boxes, it’s the sequencing.

you get a lot of features for the money you pay all stuffed inside a tiny box so obviously they had to cut some corners. also it is elektrons first dabbling in analog sound circuitry in an attempt to cater to the analog hype. sound wise my A4 doesn’t quite live up to my expectations either.

personally i would have preferred a box with less features, less oscillators, less machines, and instead a great sound engine that makes it fun to dial in sounds, instead of having this long and demoralising quest for anything usable every time I try to make music.

[andreasroman]

I feel your pain. I don’t really use the machines at all, I use samples only - though on occassion, switching on the synth parts to layer a sample can be pretty sweet. On the other hand, I can’t think of anything out there that can make samples sound so good. So it’s maybe a reverse mutation of what Elektron intended, but it’s a beatiful creature all the same.

My all time favourite analog drummer is the Tanzbär. It’s a one trick pony, but it’s the greatest trick of them all.

[rex_mundii]

I suspect that’s why the Tempest & MD gets so much love. I’ll break this into two completely separate answers:

1. One of the first things I learned about mixing (recorded) drums was that they often sound better when beefed up with another sound eg gated sine wave under a kick, white noise under a snare.

So while I’d have to agree with you that on their own the AR sound engines aren’t that spectacular, they’re fantastic for providing that extra beef - much better than a basic sine or white noise.

---

2. Training yourself to make [decent] sounds with the AR: Find a sample sound similar to what you’re trying to achieve. Play this on step 1 & 9 (don’t need to use the AR for playback, just link the clocks). Now try to match this with the AR on step 5 & 13 to the point where the two sources are indistinguishable. Then do it again with something else…

[De_wouzer]

YWith the high pass filter on the snares, you can make them really great, i think
Or… That changed the feeling of my snare engines for me.

The toms can be very deep, especially when pitching down
The clap has many possibilities too

In the beginning i had the feeling the machine had a lack of possibilities, it changed a lot, Slowly i find my way through, only the highhats need more possibilities.

And as mentioned, copy your favorite sounds, especially my kick sounded differently than when i made my sounds without copying

[tsutek]

Also, remember to use that exponential oneshot LFO whenever you need more “snap” to a sound. This can help alot esp. with snares.

Never forget the accent either! together with some well thought out velo mod matrix configs, there’s alot that can be done…

[R7]

I actually really enjoy the analog engines in the Rytm for the most part, especially the kicks. They can be just massive sounding, which fits my style. I do think the snare and hats could be a bit punchier but I tend to feel this way about most percussion sounds pre compression, and eq. The rimshot engine sounds good, the claps are super versatile, the bass tom is great for low bass drones. Don’t use the mid and high toms much but they are fun for a quick 80’s sounding Com Truise fill and the Cowbell (who seriously likes the sound of a cowbell?) can make some real weirdness.

It’s all preference and I’d love some more engines but the Rytm’s analog sound is great IMO.

[Jampot]

I actually really enjoy the analog engines in the Rytm for the most part, especially the kicks. They can be just massive sounding, which fits my style. I do think the snare and hats could be a bit punchier but I tend to feel this way about most percussion sounds pre compression, and eq. The rimshot engine sounds good, the claps are super versatile, the bass tom is great for low bass drones. Don’t use the mid and high toms much but they are fun for a quick 80’s sounding Com Truise fill and the Cowbell (who seriously likes the sound of a cowbell?) can make some real weirdness.

It’s all preference and I’d love some more engines but the Rytm’s analog sound is great IMO.

That sounds more promising haha! reading this thread made me think RYTM was rubbish at analog sounds haha

[Least_Useless]

One thing that opened ME up for the possibilities of the rytm was the randomization function in strom. I would just randomize pretty much every parameter and listen to the result and then repeat. It made me aware of my on creative limitations, not the rytm’s.

The only thing I still don’t like is the HH which is too tiny and sharp and completely lacks a fullness/richness to match the other sounds (without a layered sample).

[TrabanT]

I actually really enjoy the analog engines in the Rytm for the most part, especially the kicks. They can be just massive sounding,

Hi R7 … would you please share 1 or 2 of your Kick settings with me / us ? would be very appreciated!

[R7]

[quote=“R7”]I actually really enjoy the analog engines in the Rytm for the most part, especially the kicks. They can be just massive sounding,

Hi R7 … would you please share 1 or 2 of your Kick settings with me / us ? would be very appreciated![/quote]

BD HARD

Fast and hard sweep kick
TUN -12
SWT 99
SNP 0
DEC 40
WAV 0
HLD 127
TIc 17
LEV 90 OVR 25

SHORT CLICKY (Great for retrigs and high BPM)
-TUN -7
SWT 96
SNP 83
DEC 0
WAV 1
HLD 100
TIC 80
LEV 90

I think the BD Hard kicks sound great right away but they benefit from longer hold times for more body and some overdrive for girth.

BD CLASSIC

Basic utilitarian kick
TUN -12
SWT 75
SWD 40
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

Laser kick
TUN -12
SWT 68
SWD 70
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

BD classic is all about playing with the SWT and SWD to find a sweet spot.

FM
Acoustic drum
TUN -12
SWT 69
FMD 17
DEC 67
FMT +5
FMS 63
FMA 122
LEV 90

Lots of FM to the body
TUN 0
SWT 70
FMD 30
DEC 53
FMT -12
FMS 100
FMA 50

The FM machine is awesome, you can craft your own transient out of the FM sound by keeping the FM Decay short. It also can make all kinds of weird metallic sounds that I really enjoy but these two examples are specifically kick drums.

And while I think the Rytm’s compressor is generally too noisy to record with, some compression (however you do it) with long attack times to preserve transients and very fast release times can add alot of punch to drum sounds. Also the Rytm’s Distortion is very powerful on kicks. Instant hardstyle. Config the track routing so only the kick is getting smashed by the Distortion for recording.

[buzz]

I quite like the FM kick

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7GvyOr-FTQYUnhRWEJ1bnhQaXM/view?usp=sharing

[newgreyarea]

Thanks for the tips! I’ll try them out when I hit the studio next.

Been at home playing with an old copy of MicroToniq . . . what great drum synth!! I wish Elektron would adopt some of this. Just east and good!

[mickeyziggyk]

Thanks for the tips! I’ll try them out when I hit the studio next.

Been at home playing with an old copy of MicroToniq . . . what great drum synth!! I wish Elektron would adopt some of this. Just east and good!

This snare is ok I think (I’m perfectly happy with it)
SD Classic (TRK LVL 117)
TUN: -14
DET: 0
BAL: -32
DEC: 0
SNP: 0
NOD: 73
NOL: 64
LEV: 123
NO SAMPLE
FILTER
ATK: 45, DEC: 0, SUS:0, REL: 0, FRQ: 29, RES: 45, TYP: HP2, ENV: 10
AMP:
ATK 0, HLD AUTO, DEC INF, OVR: 21, DEL: 0, REV: 0, PAN 0, VOL 98,
LFO: N/A
FX SETTINGS (TRK LEVEL 127)
DIST:
AMT: 4, SYM 3, THE REST N/A
CMP:
THR 58, ATK 3, REL A2, MUP 41, RAT 1:2, SEQ: HIT, MIX: 22, VOL 100
LFO: N/A

[midilifestyle]

A lot can be done with the internal engines if you’re into techno, especially the noisier side of it. This guy makes these tracks entirely with one plock’d track of the Rytm. I think this one is fm snare: https://soundcloud.com/i-i-i-o/07-11-2k14

I’m a huge fan of that sound. I’m into Container, Lowjack, other more lofi techno people who get almost wall-noise with their techno. For that style, the Rytm synth engines are the coolest kid in class, in my opinion. Especially with all the options you have for overdrive/distortion/compression.

But I’m also a huge hip hop and deep house head. That is where samples come in for me.

Things I tend to do:

-Layer a bass-frequency, lower pitched snare engine with a very crisp 808 snare for those heavier trap/Weeknd/footwork style snares. Short decay so just the first bit of the transient gets a thump. Also white noise goes a long way in rounding out an 808 snare or clap sample.

-resonance and short filter envelopes can really add beef or bite to a sound as well. I use high resonance low pass or high pass (boosted in the bass frequency range, classic ms-20 trick) with a short decay time and no sustain to punch up a transient.

-I tend to copy my kick sample to that top left high hat and then add the hat with a long decay, used as a combo crash/kick. I finger drum, so I like to have my crash on top of a kick. Real drummers rarely hit a crash without a kick under it at the end of a fill, so this does that double duty for me. Noisy and fun, ymmv

-fuck the cowbell. That’s a sample slot, IMO. It makes an ok beepy chromatic synth in some cases though. So there’s that.

-I use the delay as a pseudo chorus by using the minimum delay time and turning on X to make it a ping pong, then widening it. This really widens sounds like snares and claps up. It compensates for the mono samples a bit. Of course this means you can’t use the delay as a delay, but I tend to not use much delay on drums. My shaker / hat loops often get a light ping pong delay, but this is easily added in the mixing stage or with outboard.

-I’m starting to embrace crude “layering” by literally hitting two pads at once. I often ditch the second to lowest tom and replace with a shaker or snare sample that I pan to the side a bit and combine it with a snare panned slightly to the other side. I flam them a bit when I hit, and it makes for a much sexier, hidef sound when I’m doing hip hop.

-performance macros that wiggle filters around can really breath life into things. Sometimes it’s not so much the static sound of the engines that makes the kit sound good, but the organic vibe that comes from things wiggling around randomly while you play. I got a Quneo and use it to drum with my right hand while changing performance macros and scenes with my left hand. The external controller makes a big difference.

-Overdrive. On pretty much everything. Just a little bit goes a long way. Too much and you’re in noise-techno territory.

That’s all I can think of for now. Keep fiddling. You’ll find the sweet spots.

[kwamensah]

Never underestimate the power of the LFO. I was able to make some pretty crazy psychedelic sounds with some simple pitch modulation. The machines don’t need to be expanded per se, just it would be nice if the LFO could assign to two destinations, they fixed the amp envelope and the filter envelope could assign to a second destination. Oh and the FM style LFO multiplier for chromatic playing.

[kwamensah]

Another thing to note (not sure if it was said already) but you’re not just loading samples, you are processing samples through an analog circuit path. Complete with analog overdrive, analog filters, plus modulation capabilities. This makes it a lot thicker than a simple sampler.

[mekohler]

One thing that opened ME up for the possibilities of the rytm was the randomization function in strom. I would just randomize pretty much every parameter and listen to the result and then repeat. It made me aware of my on creative limitations, not the rytm’s.

The only thing I still don’t like is the HH which is too tiny and sharp and completely lacks a fullness/richness to match the other sounds (without a layered sample).

Yeah, randomization shows you that the lackluster sound demos are a result of use programming and not the engine. I have come across lots of impressive sounds and textures using randomization.

[midilifestyle]

Something else that I mentioned above but didn’t really go into: filter resonance as tonal element.

Lots of the drum synth programming on synthesizers makes liberal use of filter resonance. Rytm has a very wide selection of filter types, and they can allow you to boost any part of the frequency spectrum into self oscillation territory. The envelope is really fast, too, so you can get really good transient thumps going.

Try making a kick almost entirely out of filter resonance. It’s surprisingly easy to get a super 808 type sound. You’ll have to feed it a little bit of synth to get the filter to start self oscillating, but I think you’ll like the results. Instead of using the amp envelope for the release/decay time, just play with the amount of resonance. Add a bit of overdrive to make the higher frequency harmonic content more audible.

[midilifestyle]

Ha I just read the OP and you say that your kicks use a self-oscillating filter.
Oops.

Well, hopefully helps the synth newbies.

In other news, I was able to get some pretty decent snappy snares playing around last night using the classic snare machine. Not an 808 snare by any means, but definitely useable on a modern record, and not just noisy techno. Maybe I’ll post sysex later…