Since this discussion comes up on every sampler thread over and over again (Tonverk threads especially), I invite people to have the discussion here to keep the other threads clean.
I think slices aren’t the same, for several reasons. For example:
they’re just faster to use on samples you’ve already prepared for a slice grid. It takes max five seconds to import drum kits this way, whereas you need to invest a lot more time to do this with start end points. And if you do it with an Elektron device, it’s a bit tedious because the pixelated graphics aren’t that precise, and only OT and DT allow you to zoom in. So if this is what you use slices for, start/end points are objectively worse: they take more time, are more prone to error and at best give you the same result (most likely a worse result)
You can play slices with the keys on Elektron samplers if you use the trig keys slice mode. That’s not possible with start end points, unless you sacrifice individual tracks with start end points. So if you’re interested in playing in variations like drum variations, drum kits, or slices of samples songs etc., slices open up an intuitive way to do that, which start end point editing will only give you when programming the sequencer.
Easy and fast way to import stems and loops with just one sample
Youcan set (random) LFOs to start points that introduce variation that’s musical and somewhat predictable/controlled
I invite @StuB to explain how we can easily do these things with start/end points. Heavy slice users like @echo_opera might add to the list and share workflows.
To me Serato Sample, Nord Sample Editor, and Antares Auto-Tune Slice are examples of the best of what’s possible with slicing, but would love to be proven wrong. You can get a free trial of Serato Sample & Antares Slice. Nord Sample Editor is free. I would say trying these out would give more context on the discussion IMO
I’ve owned an Octatrack but never a Tonverk, so I can’t speak for the Tonverk.
I’m interested in this topic because I’ve done video tutorials on it but would love to learn more on what’s possible and how other people are using it. I’m more tonal/pitch oriented and I realize most people using these tools are more beat & rhythm oriented
There’s a difference between wanting a slice machine on the Tonverk because it’s cool when you can do more with one machine, in which case it would be better if it had it, but it also doesn’t seem to be the philosophy of the machine and so it might not be the instrument for you if you specifically want slicing. Verses how slicing would improve what the Tonverk is already trying to do.
In the latter case, I think where slicing would help what the Tonverk is, would be specifcally with muting and unmuting one shots. If you have a 2 bar loop, and you unmute 1 bar in, you have to wait until it loops around back to step 1 to start again. If you have a slice machine, you can set it to 16 or 32 slices, put the corresponding steps in, and then set it linearly, so when you unmute, it triggers the oneshot at the next step, rather than waiting for the beginning.
I haven’t given slices much thought before, but this OP outlines some really creative and practical uses!
I am imagining a 16/32/64-grid of different but similar hi-hat hits (or any sound, really) with a random LFO running and modulating slice selection for mimicking real-world drums where no hit is exactly the same. No need to tinker with velocity, sample length, etc. Requires some prep though.
I use sample chains on the M8 all the time, mostly for drum kits and multi samples, but the TV takes care of that with proper multi sampling, and subtracks.
I do like to slice up vocals though, but that can be done with subtracks too.
I’d love a slice engine on the TV though. I would find it quite useful.
I use the grid machine on DT2 a lot. I either load in a sample chain with lots of variations on a type of sound, or I make a sequence on one of my other boxes to create a sound and then build a bunch of variations and sample it in directly. Using lfo to slice is very effective for easy organic variation. Playing the slices with the triggers is also very powerful and intuitive.
Manual slicing is less important to my workflow as I don’t ever use samples I didn’t create, but I can see that it would be super useful for those that do.
For me it’s not about the “philosophy” of the machine - and what the hell is that anyway - but more about being able to do more with one machine.
I have 4 samplers that can slice samples. None of them can do granular or sequence FX or bus tracks the way the TV can. I’d love to cut up my vocal loops and add a bit of the TV flavor to a beat. Same with timestretching.
These converstions remind me of the “do we need song mode” era on the forums. A lot of people said, “yes” and a lot of people said, “hell no!”
…the Digis ended up with SONG MODE and everyone’s lives moved on…
I read an article a hundred years ago that Aphex Twin used Propellerheads Recycle to slice/chop up samples, and ever since then I’ve been obsessed with using samplers with chopped/sliced samples.
What would the amen break be without slicing and chopping?
Luckily we don’t have to use special software that supports individual manufacturers’ SCSI transfer protocol, or quirks in SMDI implementation, anymore. We just have to use proprietary vendor USB sample transfer or be stuck with whatever features the manufacturer offers (Shout out to DigiChain)
Sample start or loop start modulation based on quantized values has been around since the 90s.
This slice thing is a good example of people’s pre-conceptions on what a sampler must be or must do, based on their own workflow
e.g. I’ve been pretty miffed about DT2’s lack of support for easily creating sustained notes from sampled pads & chords, however I’m sure there’s many people that never ever do this or even think of it, but to me it’s a fundamental aspect of a sampler.
Slicing is another example, of something deeply important and critical to some, but many people won’t ever need it.
(Shout out to