Simultaneous sampling/sample playback w/ record buffers

hey elektronauts…

fairly new OT user with a question…

so i have a flex machine sampling output from TR8, using scene xvol transition to move from original tracks output to newly recorded material.

i then use a new scene to introduce LFO’s and other effects, then re-sample to the same flex machine, moving back to the first scene so that LFO’s, fx etc are not effecting (affecting?) the re-sampled ‘mixdown’.

i’ve copied this part to another bank, but cannot reproduce this process.

i can sample TR8’s output ok, but when i try to re-sample the effected ‘mixdown’ the sample cuts out.

i am using one-shot recorder trigs, and there are no subsequent trigs of any kind on the track. (i.e. it records a 64 bar loop and is not re-triggered at any point)

is there something i am missing?

i hope my explanation is reasonably clear… let me know if not, i can try to do a step by step.

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Lack of reserved memory?

didn’t even think of that! will take a look.

but… later i copied the track that this technique worked on into the new part and over the track that didn’t work and then… it worked.

thanks for the thought, will check it out

Have you checked on the record length? Made sure it is long enough?

I may have misunderstood
but it seems your problem stems from the fact that your sampling to the SAME track,
you have to choose another track to record for it to work properly…

neybuu — record length is long enough. good thinking though.

rael — my point is that i AM already sampling to the same track and it’s working. on the next bank and part the same action is not working.

on the first bank/part the sample plays back and records over the buffer simultaneously. on the second it starts to do so but cuts out after a moment.

that’s my problem. :joy: it works if i copy the original track to the new part… i can’t see anything obviously different in the settings so i’m just trying to see if anyone has an idea about a setting i am overlooking.

thanks dudes

As i see it,
If your using 1 track say tr 1 to record the ouput of your master track 8
So far no problem,
But then you want to apply effects to track 1, and resample it
If this is the case, then you def need another track to sample the output of tr1 (or whatever track your using)
Otherwise the track would cut itself out and record silence, which is pretty much what your describing

We need to get our terminology sorted out for clarification.

The OT does not sample to a flex machine but a track recorder. The sample captured by a track recorder is stored in a recorder buffer which can then be assigned to a flex machine slot for playback. If you want to sample again using the same track recorder the buffer associated with that track recorder will get wiped.

You need to save the recorder buffer then reassign that sample to a flex machine slot before using the same track recorder and buffer again.

hey guys,

thanks again for the replies… appreciate hearing from you all, and i agree and concur. what you’re describing (simultaneous playback/record is not possible) is precisely what i’d expect.

what you’re missing is that this is already working.

it is happening. i am simultaneously recording to and playing back from the same record buffer.

i just can’t reproduce the effect.

i’m going to have another look to see if i’m mixed up about something. if i can i’ll make a vid to show it in action.

rael - i am in fact using tr7 to record tr8 (as master) and then using tr7 to record tr8 again after effects are added.

zeropoint - thanks for terminology pointer - you are correct. i have amended the thread title accordingly for future searchers.

cheers all

Are you changing/modulating the pitch at all on playback? I swear that I had sampling and playback on the same track simultaneously before once, but the sample would cut out after the pitch was changed. I also swear I read that on old OSs you could record and playback simultaneously to the same buffer.

Edit: This is the discussion I read that I referenced, I think I miss understood ^ http://ohpeewon.com/discussion/540/just-watched-the-elektron-octatrack-tutorials.../p1

As soon as you start recording… the buffer is cleared… and filled from the start.

but lets say you record a bar of music… (we all agree we can)
you can start recording on trigger1… AND playback on trigger1…
basicly turning your track into a thru machine… BUT…

YOU CANNOT PLAY WHAT IS NOT RECORDED ! playback will fail.
this means: if you pitch your sample UPWARDS, your octatrack will be silent.
because you try to use data which isnt there… (its not recorded yet)
also… if you use slices in your recorderbuffer (you can do this)
you cannot playback slice2 on the first trigger… for the same reason… that data doesnt exist yet… and

if you microtime your recorder-trigger a few steps back in time. and your playback trigger a bit in the future… there is more data in the buffer… and playback with pitching is possible… but then it will not be rocksolid sync with the rest of your gear. because of the gap between recording and playback (the space between the recorder trigger and the playtrigger) …

lets say you record 1 bar, continously…
you are able to put a playback trigger on step 1 and 8… for repeating effects. and do almost every trick except “reverse playback” on trigger8… since you got shitloads of data to play with…

thats why it sometimes pay to start recording on the half-bar mark and start playback of it at the complete-bar mark… so your buffer has enough data to do some weirdness with it…

very powerfull stuff if you find out how it works :slight_smile:

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Ah now I understand what was happening. Thanks dreamer.

Your welcome buddy… Enjoy playing with your newly found info… its very groovilicious what you can do in realtime with the sample-engine of the octatrack… once you understand the limitations and workflow… (and yeah, that took me a whole lot of trial and error… i even had a 6month break because i was just so sick of it not doing what i thought should be possible… but now, yeah. i say its good good fun.

and yes, i have to admit, what i thought was possible, was actually possible… but i was aproaching it from the left… and i should have been aproaching it from the right :slight_smile: once i reversed my thinking… (after the break) I can now actually do what i want…

Why using a thru machine it doesn’t work ?
I posted this :
I would need to do this :
I use a thru machine to play sounds coming from in AB.It’s the track 1…So the buffer recorder 1 (I think for the thru machines you have no choice)
I “disturb” those sounds playing with effects, and I record (with play+rec) the effects.
I the recording settings, I selected SRC 3 : T 1 .
So the Thru machine is playing something(from out), and I record that…in itself…

I change the part, and I have a Flex that plays recorder buffer 1 : the same I recorded into with the Thru machine.

It plays it, but without the effects I put in the thru.

If I record with a Flex, I have the effects, but I’d like to do the way I choose, with the thru.

Working with this right now as well and had some problems with recording and playing back the same time. managed, thanks to your writing, to rec+play from master T8 but running into another issue:

while recording and playing back, the volume gets lower and lower and fades into silence. i guess it has sth to do with the added headroom, but how to avoid this? i would like to mention that it is important for my approach not to stop recording, so one-shot isn’t an option.

does somebody has an idea? thanks!

If your recording continiously, lets say the playback of your sample, the volume is slighty lower then the original… then your loop will basicly be slightly less loud each pass… the bigger the volume difrence, the quicker it fades out… think of feedback on a delay… to much feedback and the delay tail grows louder then the original signal… feedback to soft… and your delay will never swell up to big magic delay goodness…

same goes for filters… or using a compressor, that keeps compressing the compressed track…

For realtime Recording playback I disable Timestretch. If you record SRC3 (tracks, Main, Cue), maybe you have to use microtiming to avoid end cuts…