Should I just say f*** it, minimize my setup and move on to Ableton 11 + Push 2?

The Lounge Other Gear
104

There were several issues for me with the push. It’s clearly well-built but it’s very bulky and needing a separate power supply was annoying. There were so many functions in the software that couldn’t be accessed via the push which irritated me. I agree to an extent that you can also use the mouse when necessary but for many of us the whole idea is to get away from mouse and keyboard so it defeats the point.

Maschine is not perfect by any means but it feels like a piece of hardware that was designed in tandem with the software (which it was) whereas the Push feels like it has to retro-fit onto an existing complex DAW (which it does). I think it could be a lot better but i think there is a limit to how well you can control a complex DAW with a controller. Personally I’d love to see some more groovebox-style software (not a full DAW) with dedicated controller. Best of both worlds in terms of modern computing power and hands-on control.

The main issue here is that it’s very hard to find out what works for you without a proper period of trying things so it’s necessary to buy and sell a bit or return gear to the retailer etc. You can only get so far by watching videos - it’ll give you an idea of what’s possible but it’s not the same as trying it yourself. I’ve got stressed in the past with this process but many people here (and the marketplace threads) will attest to the necessity of trial and error!

2 Likes
105

I give 6-8 month and you will all bored with mouse.

There is a tactile experience when using hardware which is unique, I moved back and fourth from DAW only (Reason Reaktor Logic+Ableton) to hardware only.

My pure joy comes from using hardware and I am now using a computer only for recording tracks, ideas or improvisation.

106

I think that sounds like a smart approach that embraces the strengths of both hardware and software. If hardware can inspire a new song idea, that’s great. Whether or not the recorded audio ends up in the final track is irrelevant as long as what ends up there is music you’re proud of. Sometimes there will be something unique about the hardware sound that you’ll want to keep, and other times you’ll discover something even better through the DAW. This is how I’m trying to approach it, too.

1 Like
107

Personally been using a mouse to make music for over 10 years. I will be fine. I like the hybrid workflow of computer with a little hardware. I did hardware only and recorded into the DAW for a year and it was not bad, but I’m more focused and faster in the DAW where I have plenty of unique sequencers and plugins that would cost me thousands and thousands to replicate in hardware.

4 Likes
108

The problem with NI its mostly preset box. Thousands upon thousands of sounds. Many of them do sound great. You can easily spend most of your time browsing and twiddling and getting little actually done. However the PADs are wonderful for finger drumming and MK3 has little to know latency. You really need to mark favorites and define your sound and limit some of your choices into your personal zone. I know as I have released 3 full length albums and an EP use mostly the MK3 and NKS synths, not all NI. I have since boxed my MK3 and use Push2 and Live 11. I have mapped essential parameters of NKS instruments to the Push (8 parameters max) and have a KK S61 MK2 for full on NKS expression and tweaking. Live 11 offers so much depth that once again you need to really set some boundaries or you will be jamming in your sandbox everyday (which is not always a bad thing).

109

Bitwig uses Push2 to great effect if you use the MOSS extensions.

110

update!? These things are super interesting to me.

major ADD as well and also sold everything except MD and 0coast

111

All I’ll say for an update is Christ, I should read over stuff I write I’m the past when getting GAS in the now :joy:

Had a bit of a mad purchasing spree over the first 6 months of the year. Wasnt productive much. Spent last Saturday with just Mac and Push 2 and was like a breath of fresh air.

I want to end up with 1 to maybe 3 max pieces of OTB gear. At the moment I’m at 6 (2 are POs though) with an Osmose on pre order. Much change and simplification needed!!! And must try harder to break the cycle😂

3 Likes
112

I would keep the gear and forget about Ableton. It’s a soulless software that makes everyone sound the same and even with the Push2 the workflow is awful. Just my two cents. :slight_smile:

1 Like
113

Just a few thoughts.
In a few years Push 2 will sell for half the price or less, the AK will probably go up in price.
Mainly because the AK will still be useful, where Push 2 will become outdated because the software will become outdated.
The AK should survive a few rounds of laptops as well.
At the same time, Live 11 isn’t much different than Live 8-10.
Personally my favorite tracks I made we’re the easiest to create.

I’m a firm believer that long term relationships with grear provide an opportunity to use them unconventionally and helps me develop a “style”
I can’t imagine switching to Ableton would relieve ADD, or feel different enough to feel like you are achieving what you’ve mentioned.

I’m not sure what the solution is. I can see the benefit to giving into your desire and finding out.
However I would feel like I lost my AK over a temporarily expensive midi controller.

2 Likes
114

I find everyone with an Octatrack, Prophet 5, and Pulsar (substitute other cool gear as needed) all sound the same and soulless.

Maybe it comes down to many people sound the same and soulless, and what gear you use has very, very little to do with it.

I recommend people have a DAW and some hardware, then work on your soul.

17 Likes
115

There are two things that are interrelated, but separate, and a lot of people conflate them. The first is tool mastery; the second is finding your voice.

A personal example: I still haven’t spent enough time with the M:C to get beyond the “everyone sounds the same” phase. It was my first Elektron box, and while I’ve tried to take it more in the direction of how I like to sound, I’m not quite good enough at it yet to get there. I enjoy playing with it, but I’m not at a level where I’d release something I made with it.

On the other end of the spectrum, I’ve been using Reason for over a decade, and it’s where I really forged my personal sound, even if I tend to use Ableton more these days. I’ve come a long way from the techno everyone makes out of the box with Reason, though I still use Redrum now and then. :slight_smile:

1 Like
116

I recommend having both setups available, if not more.

For decades I’ve bought and sold gear, switched into and out of various boxes, and mixtures of the two.

For the past almost but not quite a year, I have finally stabilized my core hardware setup (Hydra Deluxe, TR-8S, Grandmother, and now a Waldorf M, this part will stay until I’m dead. :smiley: ) and have various other smaller things that I can bring into and out of that setup that sit in a cupboard. (Digitakt, Blackbox, TD-3-MO) I record to a Bluebox, and have a couple of Strymon effects for this.

THEN, I have a Macbook M1 with Reaper, Audiorealism Bassline and Drum Machine, DiscoDSP OBXD, a few NI synths, VPROM2 and Ozone. This can be used stand alone when I’m in the mood to work in box. It can also be used for some final polish on whatever I’m recording with the other setup, or little sub-setups from the Bluebox.

For some reason I was never able to allow myself to have idle gear in the past, but treating them as separate things for whatever reason seems to work, even though they can overlap and work together sometimes.

I would hate it if I couldn’t just sit down and play on my keys sometimes (without even recording).

I would hate it if I couldn’t whip up bed music on a Digitakt or Blackbox.

I would hate it if I could compose a properly organized piece in software when my more organized self manages to grab hold of my brain for a day.

My advice, let the hardware sit. You will probably want to use it again.

5 Likes
117

I wish Ableton had of done a keys version of push.

4 Likes
118

I really love my push 2. Its really amazing! Its so much fun to make synth pathes with fors chiral and Glänta which are mapped on the push.

2 Likes
119

I may have already said this in this thread, a long time ago, but I thought the Push 2 was one of the worst things I’ve ever bought, hardware or software.

It’s too big and bulky, it’s too expensive and it failed spectacularly to do the one thing it should have done which was to be an interface with Ableton so I didn’t have to use a mouse and keyboard. It doesn’t do that very well at all and I think it’s because it was designed after the fact as a bolt-on to an existing piece of software, not designed in unison like Maschine, which integrates perfectly.

If you want a very expensive clip launcher and an adequate MIDI knob controller then it’ll do the job, but you’ll still be using the mouse and keyboard a lot of the time, and you’ll have no desk space left because it’s the size of a pool table.

My 2 cents.

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120

Ableton really fooled a lot of people with their promotional videos.
They show someone with a well planed project set up to appear as if it’s just a cinch to plug the thing in and start “jamming.”
After years of customizing the APC40 and using M4L and various controller, ClyphX etc, it completely demystified the Push when it came out.
Blows my mind people will spend $600 for that thing.
In 4 years people will be selling them for $150

Yet we have the OT which is basically Live Lite in a box that will out live countless laptops.

2 Likes
121

I agree completely!
I bought one a few years back and constantly found myself going back to mouse and keyboard.

It was sold within 6 months.

I feel if you’re playing live it’s probably a good investment but for studio use it’s a bit of a flop

122

Its not about gear of any kind. Its about creative musical intelligence. Certainly having learned to sing and or have some music theory under your belt helps. I find quite a lot of music boring. Lack of real talent and imagination is a big factor. Just my 2 cents.

1 Like
123

As a clip launcher there are cheaper options, but I really liked Push 2 for the plug-in integration. Super easy to tweak sounds and the visual feedback is way cool. On the other hand it’s not great as a hands on mixing tool and the lack of a crossfader (or easy way of assigning tracks to the crossfader) is a big miss IMO. I had a Push 1, upgraded to Push 2 and have now switched out for an Octatrack + iPad running Drambo for something completely different.

If I go back ITB to Ableton I’ll use Touchable on an old iPad which is a fantastic alternative to Push.

2 Likes