Sequencer structure too simplistic

Elektron Gear Syntakt
#1

I often hear Elektron’s sequencer is very powerful with tons of functions but I really think it lacks of consistent and more complex structure to make it really powerful.
What have we within a project ? Only patterns. Everything is saved in a pattern without distinction.

  • No instrument/kit level
  • No track level

All is sadly blend in a pattern.
When you begin to work with your first pattern all is good, no problem (« whouaou », « amazing », « awsome »…)
But when you create several patterns to be chained (chain or song) it begins to mess up:

  • unwanted jumps of sounds parameters : you have to make numerous and laborious manipulations to get consistent sound across your patterns everytime you change a parameter of your sound in a pattern.
  • Numerous and laborious manip to duplicate a sequence of one track to another track of another pattern.
  • Unwanted jumps of track level : you cannot use external midi controller to transform your device in a sort of mixer where you physically control your patterns like a mixer since the audio track level is pattern based, not track based.

Just few examples.
Roland tr8s for example is much more easy to deal with. And so much more fun to play with, instant live creations. Thanks to its strucure track/ instrument/pattern.

Yet ST has such interesting and powerful functions and sounds. It’s a shame it lacks of structure to deeply work with. I would want to love my ST, I like Elektron and I had A4, AR, OT but I’m tired of having headaches to work around the limitations of the sequencer.
And sadly I think it would be difficult to improve since it’s a question of structure not just adding a function somwhere.

Maybe most of you will consider these thoughts are secondary to the power of the Elektron devices, maybe it’s only my way to make music but I wanted to express my opinion here.

Regards and have fun with your ST !

2 Likes
#2

These are all things many of us have been saying for years. The global track level thing, I believe, can be set in the global setting.

2 Likes
#3

In grid rec mode , func + copy on the desired track. Switch to the other pattern. Switch track. Func+paste. Never have to leave grid recording mode. Not really laborious and I don’t see how this could be done any faster.

Change to global mixer. Fixed. :slight_smile:
You can also switch the Fx to global.

Regarding kits: while this might seem useful, and in some cases it certainly is, it also has a lot of downsides. The open structure is really flexible and has a lot of positive sides. The general workflow is a lot quicker and you are less likely to mess up patterns because you forgot to save to a new kit for example. Kits means another layer of management which to me is actually more laborious. But this is very personal and there are as many people that love kits as there are people that enjoy a life without kits. The switching pattern within a song problem is indeed a good point that is tough to work around other than embracing it and using it in creative ways.

None of these things really seem to make the sequencer less powerful. The power ia found within parameter locks, flexible track length, scales, conditional locks and probability etc.

Edit: one workaround that is worth a try is copying a track’s sound , switch to next pattern and immediately paste the track’s sound. With a bit of practice and muscle memory training this will be quite fluid.

19 Likes
#4

Yeah, I really don’t get on that well with kits, too much for my brain to manage. I much prefer the structure of the smaller boxes.

Different strokes…

Also, I think the addition of the global settings has done a lot to improve the workflow when switching between patterns.

3 Likes
#5

Having read the forum for a couple of years now, I find there’s equal numbers of people:

  • complaining the Digis don’t have kits
  • complaining the Analog’s kits are too complex and get in the way of patterns
7 Likes
#6

And yet both the new and old boxes are available so people in either camp can be satisfied.

4 Likes
#7

The boxes really are designed for creating mainly techno electronic music. Short repeating layered loops. There kind of isn’t enough room for the buttons required to make the sequencer more sophisticated. Been saying for years I’d like Elektron to come out with their take on the MPC concept.

My solution for the whole kit thing on the Digis is this (and I’d prefer it to kits): It's unlikely that we'll ever get kits on the Dark Trio, but I had an idea

3 Likes
#8

Kit lovers vs Kit haters
:grin: :popcorn:

Btw i’d love to have kits for the Digi’s but it is what it is.

1 Like
#9

All through life, we cling to the hope that if the externals could wrap unto us, instead of us having to force our ways unto the externals, we would have kits for the digis.

1 Like
#10

Oh ok, thank you for the tip about global track level. My bad, I didn’t find it, I didn’t go deep enough to global settings. And it works for fx too, so good news.

I persist to think it would be more natural to consider pattern as sequencer datas for one track only and be able to load a pattern into a track from a pattern pool and the same for instrument. but as we say in french “all tastes are in nature” I guess.

thank you again for your detailed response. very helpful.

#11

The kits system on the Analogs really is very confusingly implemented and takes quite a lot of learning the hard way to master. It would be much better in my opinion if pattern 8 was automatically saved to kit slot 8 etc, but as it is any changes made in a pattern’s sound have to be manually saved to a new kit slot. In a project most of those 128 kit memory slots don’t get used, it makes no sense. Then you often have to make sure to reload previous patterns with their associated kit again to make sure and double check that all your pattern’s kits are correctly saved before you shut down. When I first got the Digitakt I preferred the system with no kits although now I see advantages to both approaches, the kits system could be improved.

3 Likes
#12

That’s what I said in my post :+1:
Certainly the case yeah :slight_smile:

1 Like
#13

Kits on Machinedrum are Super useful and really good. Love this feature on the silver box

#14

Couldn’t disagree more with this. Been making lots of other styles next to techno and there are quite a few very very talented musicians here creating all sorts of crazy stuff on the digis.

7 Likes
#15

:thinking: electronic music ?

7 Likes
#16

Every time I really think about it, “techno” is a very silly word for a genre of music (in English anyway; wonder if it originated with German, and how it sounds to native German speakers?)

As for sequencers and kits in this discussion, it seemed to me from my shopping research earlier this year like the main options out there for hardware are Ableton-style clip launchers, DAW-in-a-box-like / piano roll on MPC One, trackers, Roland-style step sequencers, generative and Eudlidean-type and modular sequencers, the big Elektron box sequencers based on kits, and the small Elektron box sequencer based on patterns.

There are … a lot of hardware sequencing options out there and there’s a ton of info out there about all of them to consult before picking one.

#17

This is for the KITT lovers.

KITT.PNG

9 Likes
#18

It originated in Detroit. What do you find silly about it?

1 Like
#19

Just that seems like it’s short for … technological music? Technology music?

#20

You’re saying you prefer the Digi no-kit system. Fair enough. I learned the Analog’s ways first, and having the kit “follow” me from Pattern to Pattern by default makes more sense ti me. I have no problem “wasting” kit slots.

It’s def easier to remember which kit goes with which Pattern if you name them after the Pattern, but saving Kit D11 in slot 59 isn’t especially intuitive. Naming your tracks early is another good habit, but hard!!