Where is the line? What is tasteful and what is tasteless? Why am I so uncomfortable with this topic?
Why is it so hard to be both a creative, and a promoter? Why don’t I feel comfortable accepting money for something I’ve created, or even asking for money for something I’ve created?
Throughout my entire life it’s been like this, one would think it’s lack of confidence in the value of a creation, but I almost think that sometimes I can’t put a price on something so valuable and therefore I’d rather give it as a gift than to undersell it.
So what is self promotion, and what is shameless self promotion?
I think the answer is highly contextual. There are a few good threads here for sharing our own material. Posting to these threads is very much in keeping with Elektronaut norms.
Creating a new thread every day with a new track would almost certainly be far over the line of acceptable behavior.
If I was “serious” about a “music career” or even just playing around with exposure, I’d create a new artist name, an album or so worth of material and then spend the money I would have spent on gear on some kind of paid marketing. IDK why I haven’t done this already, it would probably be useful for my day-job career in software.
I’m not not sure where the line is myself and this is something I struggle with. I’ve been reading “How to make it in the new music business”. It makes a point of referring to the chapter “why no one cares about your music” multiple times.
At the end of the chapter:
“Whether you like it or not, your story is just as important as your music. This cuts deep, I know. I can sense your blood pressure rising. Breathe. In. And. Out. You want to succeed as a musician? You’re going to need to accept this. You can no longer reply on PR and marketing departments, this is now your job.”
What I’ve realized for myself is, maybe I am the the one who doesn’t care about my music enough. Also, I need to define what it means to “succeed as a musician” before I can succeed as a musican.
Last night, I turned on my monomachine and TR-8s and put together a little jam. When I was done, my wife took the headphones and listened for a long time, adding and subtracting notes from the active track on the TR-8s.
I didn’t record anything to post here because while it was a fun experience for the two of us it was more of a personal thing than something that I think the wider world would enjoy. I had fun, she had fun, we both had fun experiencing each other having fun. That’s enough for me/us. I may rework things into a track that is worth sharing, but I may not.
I could sell a really interesting story about myself without music attached but I don’t want to, because it’s irrelevant to what I hope to bring to this place (if anything worthwhile at all).
I have no qualms with this, I think it’s awesome and I like this community a lot, I have no problem with people here selling their work. There’s no judgement and it’s a great way to network with artists and music appreciators on a similar path.
Someone unexpectedly sent a message and complimented something I posted in the current sounds thread and it was like being paid 100 times over, I would have trouble turning around and saying “here’s where it’s for sale” but is that very act of shame over creating and promoting a product as opposed to “creating a song”, being unsuccessful as both a promoter AND a musician, since that’s what it appears todays climate requires?
I really understand your sentiment about hiring paid marketing, not because I like the idea, but it puts distance between you and the unpleasant act.
There is probably room for a sort of semi-volunteer community record label. Other forums have done this in the past, and it has worked out well. It would have to be done in the spirit of exploration and collaboration - while there is money in music, there are far easier ways to obtain money with marketing skills.
I’d say if you have a new release, by all means create a thread for it but go the extra mile. So instead of some bland press release full of vague marketing bullshit, tell us about your process, the gear you used and how the tracks eventually came together. There’s also the Your Commitment to Releasing Something thread which is fine for a double post.
What’s not fine is dropping your final released track into Current Sounds just because it’s popular with a lot of ears on it. There are Your Latest Track threads for that, if you want a more humble announcement.
With YouTubers promoting their own channels, it’s a bit more of a grey area. We’ve already discussed this on the Current Sounds thread without reaching a consensus on it. But when it comes to gear reviews and jams etc, it’s just a matter of choosing the most relevant thread for them. Most gear has its own thread on here, so that’s fine.
This is all just personal opinion of course. But I’ve found some wonderful music made by people on this forum so long may that continue!
Edit: just realised you were asking more generally rather than about promoting on here. My bad!
totally agree, especially because at this point I’d rather plug in the zoom recorder and share what I’m messing with rather than try and present something unpolished amongst a bunch of gems. there are a lot of people here with superb mixing skills. it feels like a lot of pressure because that’s never been my focus as a musician but I feel like it’s going to have to be now.
edit:
totally fine your opinion is very welcome! it was more of a philosophical topic, but all that is very topical and relevant to the world we’re living in or “existing in”. In general what you’re saying relates the topic very directly to the ecosystem.
The problem with branding is that you don’t get to control it. Whether you want to sell your story or not, people will still react to it. There will be people that like your music because you created it, and there will be those that feel the opposite. If we could truly separate the art from the artist then we could all just settle down with an album made by an AI.
Stories are the most human thing in the world. We are story tellers.
It’s an interesting question btw. When does promotion become shameless. It’s one of those things that you know when you see it, but I don’t know how I’d define it. It’s easy to draw the line for yourself, because it’s the point you start to feel shame but charge ahead regardless, but your audience might not perceive it that way.
It’s very contextual too - I promote my socials and Patreon in the description of all my youtube uploads - but I’ve never once encouraged anyone here to pay for my music, subscribe to my channel or follow me on Insta, I would be embarrassed to do that. If I ever get round to releasing an album I’m truly proud of I’d probably promote it here, but I’d be sheepish about it.
Maybe part of that is because I don’t need financial reward - similar to what you indicate @shigginpit - recognition is reward enough - perhaps if we were starving artists shame would be the least of our concern?
I think that’s part of it, but several of my past endeavors in and out of music have taken me close to peril because of this otherwise I wouldn’t have brought the topic up. It’s a pretty big problem for me, I’m probably downselling it…
Especially amongst a community of artists with eyes on you, if you’re at all self conscious as a person it’s nerve wracking. I’m nobody here you know? One time though (in the past elsewhere), someone who was kind of a big shot in his field told me to be careful pricing your work because people will gauge your worth based on the value you’ve assigned to yourself. I thought it was pretty superficial at the time but I’ve seen it played out as true more often than I’d like to admit.
To switch the context up a bit, I’ve been a freelancer and run my own businesses, I’ve also pitched for funding. I’ve not had an ounce of shame asking people to give me money for doing what I’m trained to do - in fact I demand it!
Maybe we just don’t value our musical output enough to be shameless in promoting it Shame is perhaps in part the product of uncertainty in ones own ability, or from the other perspective, a reaction to a lack of quality. Generally speaking if I consider someones promotion efforts to be shameless I’m probably reacting as much to not liking what they’re promoting as I am the way they’re doing it.
I totally understand your dilemma and have also the same struggle like you and many others.
We live in a time where artists have to be their own producers, agents, marketers, promoters, bookers, technicians etc. etc., which (to put it mildly) is the biggest neoliberal self-exploitation nightmare ever.
But at the same time it also gives us the opportunity to “cut out the middle man” and use our modern communication tools to define our artistic persona ourselves.
Before this, you needed agents, labels, patrons, but also someone who’s a good photographer, someone who knows how to shoot good videos etc.
In other words: The resources for producing good quality works and self promotion are way more accessible and affordable than ever before, and my observation is that therefore a LOT more quality works, but also a HUGE LOT more mediocre and really awful works are constantly flooding us in everyday life.
What I also see after graduating from art school in 2019 and being in the open competition battle of getting fundings or contracts to produce and show my work is how those around me, who are extroverts, talking nonstop and networking like hell, can easily talk people into deep BS about the “depth” of what they do because they have mastered “artspeak”.
My personal “solution”: I earn enough money with alienating myself with either totally BS comission work or participating as designer or content producer for those “who made it”, whilst fighting for the room and time to work on my own stuff which I feel deeply connected to, sometimes alone, often times in collectives with likeminded artists. Unfortunately those works I am most proud of or which I enjoyed the most are those that I earned the least money with, but I also cannot stop it becauseI love what I do…
There’s an episode of curb your enthusiasm where larry donates some money to a hospital for the construction of a new wing, but it turns out to be an anonymous donation and in his pride, he wants to be recognized for it so he keeps trying to tell people that he donated the money without looking like a guy trying to take credit for an anonymous donation.
In reality, an anonymous donation to the world is no less valuable than one with a name attached, it’s just less saleable until you remove the anonymity - if you juxtapose this with art/culture/music, there’s a parallel in that things of value can exist without the focus on the creator, but it is not always what it was when it began when the veil is lifted, as the focus shifts - then it becomes wholly what you’ve described.
I don’t think there’s any shame in overvaluing yourself or your own creativity, no more than in undervaluing it, but in promoting yourself there does seem to be a line and you are probably correct that how we view people informs us of how we feel about their self promotion. I don’t tend to think that way because it’s not my mindset, but I can’t say it doesn’t exist on a level that I’m not aware of.
Shame is perhaps in part the product of uncertainty in ones own ability, or from the other perspective, a reaction to a lack of quality. Generally speaking if I consider someones promotion efforts to be shameless I’m probably reacting as much to not liking what they’re promoting as I am the way they’re doing it.