Sculpting in-between kicks (ghost notes)

Elektron Gear Digitakt
#1

Question regarding sculpting kicks on samplers like DT/OT/Rytm etc:

The smaller, in-between kicks, the ones additional to the main/four beat kicks, used in many genres. I think they’re called ghost notes in drummer terminology. How do people create/tweak them?

Usually you’d want them less present then the main kicks. Curious how people make these.

Volume and length?
When starting with electronic music/gear, on the Digitakt, I started by pulling the volume down a bit with the note value, and maybe shortening them. Are there already tips in this regard? Turning down volume via the note level, the amp, or less drive? Shorter notes: via amp decay or note length?

Filter?
Lately I’ve been enjoying using the filter on these notes. I usually have a high pass on a kick, with some resonance around the low end. For these ghost / additional kicks I’ll pull the high pass filter a bit up, f.e. from around 38 to around 45 on the DT. This will make them a bit less boomy and give them quicker/shorter attack. Is this an often used technique?

Other
Any other tips and tricks for these type of additional kicks?

Curious to hear!

(I’ve googled and searched a bit, but couldn’t find anything here on EN, and YouTube/Google is full of DAW-based main kick tutorials instead of this, as for as I could find)

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Better Drum Programming
#2

Sometimes microtiming helps to remove clicks, so the waveform doesn‘t get cut off so sharply by the following trigger.
Also I find an LFO triggering as an exponential form on the tuning also helpful to de-emphasize ghost notes, it can be used to turn down the typical pitchbend „knock“ of a kick sample.

edit: for the Digitakt, dunno about the Rytm

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#3

One of my tricks for ghost notes on drums in a tracker is to change the start position of the sample. Works really well for snares and kicks in particular. It often makes the drum hit quieter as well, which means you don’t have to do as much volume parameter locking.

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#4

For kicks, I sometimes run them ever so slightly through a delay send with a bit of low cut on it and low to moderate feedback. This works very well on the Digitakt and the insane feedback means you’re only ever one knob turn away from madness.

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#5

I usually just lower the velocity

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#6

some options I use (some already mentioned above):

  • shift the start point (less of the original sharp attack)
  • shift the end point. A very short staccato bass drum isn’t physically realistic (it’s not what a ghost hit on a real drum sounds like), but it can have similar rhythmic function
  • reduce note length. Similar, but you could add a bit of amp envelope release to make it less choppy.
  • shorter amp envelope decay
  • longer amp envelope attack, softening the transient
  • lowpass filter, to soften the hit in a different way
  • highpass filter, good for a contrasting hit on a bassy kick drum (one where it has a prominent tone, not just an impact)
  • just lower the volume. Simple, but layered in a mix, it might be all you need.

in short, you can do it by reducing pretty much anything about the sound.

A kick’s impact is the whole combination of sub-bass, bass, low mids, high mids, transient envelope. Scooping out from any of those can reduce the weight.

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#7

Less Volume and less decay. As above, filters. That follows what you’d expect from a physical drum being hit lightly.

You could use attack, depends on the attack curve, not familiar with the Digitakts.

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#8

Layering. I usually use 2-3 tracks for kicks (not on the DT though), sometimes one playing a non 4/4 beat, with some high-pass filtering as you said.

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#9

Very interesting comments across the board, thanks all for chiming in!

And I think this sums it up beautifully. Interesting as approach, just to think of the whole spectrum of sound that make up kicks. But nice to have al these additional ideas from you all to start trying out with even more - some ideas that I currently definitely wouldn’t have thought of yet.

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#10

P-locked delays on specific trigs.

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#11

I almost always use a highpass filter and overdrive at around 50% and slight bit reduction on my drum loops to give the kicks and snares extra boost in the lows and mids. Then I do the following to make ghost notes:

  • Shorten the amp hold
  • apply less overdrive
  • apply less bit reduction

I do this instead of softening the kicks by using a lowpass filter, because switching between filter types between trigs can introduce clicks. Also I tend to make rather compressed and loud beats, so filtering out the high end from the kicks just buries them in the mix.

Also, I use the overdrive as a volume knob; if I want to adjust volume, I’m more often than not adjusting overdrive. Actually adusting the volume for individual trigs is a last resort :stuck_out_tongue:.

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#12

Filter Env Amt

I dislike long decays on drums and like low passing and using the filter env to sculpt the sound, and then reducing it for ghost notes

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#14

How do you usually apply this filter envelope amount to the low pass filter? A positive amount of filter env? Immediate attack so it starts with some more highs? And then quick or slower release of the filter env?

And then for the ghost notes, you’d use the same envelope shape (attack&release), but then just less filter envelop amount?

Curious!

#15

I usually keep the LP filter set really low so the Env Amt (positive) does all the work, but some samples sound better using more subtle settings. It’s ultimately a delicate balance between filter amounts and the envelope shape to get the right tone. The HP filter type can use negative values on Env Amt for some tightly controlled body at the start of a hit, preferably combined with some resonance. You can also use slower attacks on the HP with reverse cymbals/white noise.

The Filter Env shapes differ but they’re often quick and snappy, the whole reason for this method is that it allows you to really trim a particular frequency shape from a percussive sound, something the Amp Env doesn’t fully allow. Some minimal attack helps on percussive filler (conga style stuff), and even longer for shakers or cymbals. The next step is to modulate pitch by a random LFO set on trigger mode and really low amounts, like in the one digit decimal range. A touch of room reverb doesn’t hurt either. My experience is that this method gets a really organic vibe out of acoustic samples (or even electronic) that would otherwise sound rather static played straight. It also works great for ghost notes, elaborate fills and conditional trickery.

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#16

Slightly OT, but on the subject of ghost notes…
If you have not watched the YouTube video of Bernard Purdie explaining his ghost notes and how he came up with the Purdie shuffle, do yourself a favor and check it out. It’s pure gold.
I YouTube searched “Bernard Purdie ghost notes”
There’s another about his shuffle.
Anyways…

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#17

My advise is keep it simple! Keep it sparse.
Accented Kicks are cool.
Ghost notes belong on the snare… but I’m a drummer so of course I would say that.

Subtle random LFO to pitch and attack makes your kicks more alive.

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#18

I just have a go to sample of a ghost kick from a Fourtet track. :slight_smile:

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#19

On the contrary I mostly use LPF on the ghost kicks,lower the volume,using pitch too.
When I pitch up I may use some reverb and I will extend the sample end point.When I pitch down I will decrease the size of the end point or give it a different start point.

I use 1/24 or 1/32 retrigs on the offbeat kicks I will add and will ALWAYS have them all playing with a probability of about 50%.

That way they never play on a standard pattern and they sound like they constantly evolve.

Another trick I like is to set a NO-FILL to the last 4 kicks on my pattern(I always use 64 steps),so when I want to change the pattern,hitting fill will play my fill notes and clear the kicks for a more dramatic transition.

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#20

Great ideas this.

Plus also the end-fill. Never really got the fill thing in my system yet, I feel there’s def more possibilities there. Maybe also f.e. instead of 50% on ghost/additional trigs, pot a bunch on fill, to subtly move a segment that’s otherwise not changing, sort of subtle build up…

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#21

Good idea also.I definitely do what you describe but with claps to build my drop.The way and style I compose on the Digitakt makes the FILL/NO FILL essential since I mostly try to do it all in the box.

I will place all my reverse crashes,reverbed retrigs of claps and other effects like chopped vocals on FILL and everything I don’t want to interfere with these elements on NO FILL in the end of the pattern.

Also I may place some base kicks on FILL in a different place of the pattern,let’s say step 18 and make a NO FILL on 17.Then I can variate the standard 4/4 if I want.

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