I am having difficulty understanding how saving project works. In my mind when I save the current project it should save the current state of all the kits and patterns. However, it doesn’t really do it.
So what I did was to start a new project and save it immediately with a new name. Then I made some patterns and modified Kit 1. I saved then the project by overwriting it with the same name, as I don’t think there is a straightfoward ‘save project’ command as, say in Ableton or other daws. Then turned off the machines. Then I powered on again. Things seemed to be there Kit 1 and the patterns were there. Then I made some patterns with kit 2. Again, I saved the project by overwriting with the same name and power off. I power on now and Kit 1 is initialized, so my sound design work there is gone. The patterns which i did with kit 1 seem to be there, but of course playing with the initialized kit 1. Kit 2 seems to be saved and playing correctly. But then Kit 2 may be just in whatever temporary memory there is and is not actually saved. I am confused. Why is saving a project not saving also the kits in that project? If I have a session working with X number of kits, do I have to go to each of them manually to save before turning off the machine. Or switching to another project. It seems a bit stupid if that’s the case…help me out, please! thanks.
You need to save Kits, that’s why.
Then you can reload your Kit to the saved point.
Kits are not reloaded until another Kit is called / Changes made are lost if not saved once another Kit is called.
E.g. If you have several patterns with the same Kit it keeps the temporary tweakings until you reload the Kit or switch to a pattern with another Kit.
You’re both right, saving project does not save the kits, it has to be done manually. I think every user has lost work until they figured this out.
The question is: what’s the logic behind this UI decision? Is it so the autosave doesn’t accidentally overwrite a kit before you’re sure you want to commit it?
Anfim! You took the words right out of my mouth? Why is there not a save all/one click option? Surely the process(es) of operation must serve the art? For the Elektron artists!
I’ve definitely lost work until I realised kit saving, unlike pattern saving, is not automatic. I still lose (by failing to save) kits occasionally if I’m tweaking lots of them in a single session.
A good practice to never loose work again is to select “load kit” every time you start a new pattern, and choose an empty spot in the kit list. This way the kit is automatically named and connected to that pattern.
You could also choose save kit, but then you are bugged with naming the kit, something that distracts from my flow. I really don’t care how kits are named, as long as they are connected to my pattern. This way you only need to save your project once you switch to another project.
It is a very bizarre design choice. Within the data structure the kits and patterns are both part of the project. I would kind of understand if the kits were shared across projects (but that would be too strange of a choice too…).
Currently, the design solution is kind of like - imagine a word document which you save. When you hit save however, it saves only the content and not the formatting. Every formatting change you’d need to save with a separate command.
It is a very bizarre design choice. Within the data structure the kits and patterns are both part of the project. I would kind of understand if the kits were shared across projects (but that would be too strange of a choice too…).
Currently, the design solution is kind of like - imagine a word document which you save. When you hit save however, it saves only the content and not the formatting. Every formatting change you’d need to save with a separate command. [/quote]
Very good analogy! And now imagine that you change and save a particular format for one of your documents, only to go back and find that many other of your documents using that format are now royally messed up!
I am also a huge proponent of each pattern has its own kit, and I work that way. Even if I make a minor tweak to a kit for a new pattern, it always gets cloned and renamed. Something that Korg nailed ages ago with their Electribes…each patern has its own kit…period.
Is this a design choice by Elektron? Or simply an oversight… As most Elektron design choices seem pretty logical! I wonder what the best way to get through to the right people might be? Perhaps I should email support. To clarify why kit saving is not locked into project saving…
You need to save your Kits even if your Project is active, they do not autosave at all (however, they do temporarily stay active)
The working memory will only keep two (iirc) unsaved Kits in memory so to speak.
Haha, even after having this thread in my mind, this morning I boot up the A4 and the patch is nothing like how I remember it. I guess I forgot to save the kit again.
It’s really baffling that saving the project does not save the kits. Makes operating this machine a bit paranoia-inducing, because when powering down it’s not enough to save the kits you were just working on, you need to remember to go back to every pattern you touched during the session and save those kits too.
Even just a function in the kit menu called “save all kits” would make things much, much easier.
It’s a long shot, but I messaged support. Asking if this (ill)logic has the potential to be improved upon…
I have found the automatic kit reload helpful, since it forces you to press Yes+Kit every time you want to save changes. It’s a bit weird design choice, but on the other hand in a live performance you can tweak the knobs as much as you like, without fear of overwriting your work.
I’ll take another analogy.
Say you’re playing a video game.
You’re just before entering the room where the Boss awaits you.
You save.
After an epic fight, you finally get rid of him and loot every single stuff he left.
What do you do : you save !!
I know you want it to work another way, but if you think of it this way, it makes more sense I guess.
Key thing for this design choice is the fact that you can reload any time, like really tweak your sound to some crazy place and come back safely.
I have found the automatic kit reload helpful, since it forces you to press Yes+Kit every time you want to save changes. It’s a bit weird design choice, but on the other hand in a live performance you can tweak the knobs as much as you like, without fear of overwriting your work.[/quote]
Of course, that’s why autosave wouldn’t work here. But still, a ‘save all kits’ function wouldn’t affect the kit reloading feature and would make it muke easier to save with confidence knowing that every kit will be intact, even if you only touched it at the start of a long session and then forgot about it.
A save all kit sounds quite dangerous and I can see it causing similar issues where previous kits have been overwritten after forgetting a previous kit had been changed.
It also seams quite a redundant feature anyway as you only really work with one kit at once. I just use the quick shortcuts to save and reload kits as I develop them. Once I got the flow, everything became second nature.
I do really like the easy reload functions, it makes noodling lots of fun .
I can’t imagine many situations where you’d want to turn off the machine and have it not revert to its last state when it was on, but if that were the case then the ‘save all kits’ option would still be, well, optional… Everything would still be the same except one handy new function for those of us too scatterbrained to remember to save kits individually as we’re working on them.
Anyway, this is clearly user error on my part and I feel like a bit of a plum begging for the machine to be dumbed down for me. Will definitely be more rigorous about saving kits from now on.
I don’t see it as user error really, its just not a very obvious system for many people, myself included. I have only had the machine a couple of weeks and it didn’t take me long to start losing kits. I then spent a good portion of the day going through the reasons for losing and ways to avoid it.
Since then, I have only been concerned with managing kits as everything else takes care of itself. So, for me it was just a shift in focus more than anything.
Now I am more dexterous at annoying the neighbours with this delightful black box. 
I can’t imagine many situations where you’d want to turn off the machine and have it not revert to its last state when it was on, but if that were the case then the ‘save all kits’ option would still be, well, optional… Everything would still be the same except one handy new function for those of us too scatterbrained to remember to save kits individually as we’re working on them.
Anyway, this is clearly user error on my part and I feel like a bit of a plum begging for the machine to be dumbed down for me. Will definitely be more rigorous about saving kits from now on.
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The thing is, you only really need to save the Kit (Yes + Kit) as long as you don’t swap to another project.
So you can more or less concentrate on this feature only.
And when you switch to another project, saving is asked so you can’t really forget it.
Saving a project only saves the project - not the Song -not the Kits - not the Patterns.
I like it this way.
- ofcoarse patterns are auto-saved when switching patterns.But you still have to save Kits and Song yourselve.
what I would like to see is a function ( will never happen I guess ) that could erase all patterns not used in a song.
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A save-all function could be usefull but dangerous asswell. Ass long as this would be a second option > no problem - but I like to have the choise