# Sample chains - coming from an OT user

AdamJay : I thought it had more to do with NRPN midi scale, but just don’t understand the technicals.

I think you are right… one of the two, I just have a vagure recollection about there being a logical midi reason for it…

AdamJay : I make chains with Ableton Live, yes.

Maybe when I have some spare time I’ll code up a Chainer for the Rytm… needs to be quantised?

Of course!

Ah, yes.
Avoiding the Midi CC prime of 127.
Me thinks we are both right.

Of course! [/quote]
Well, I’ve already done 95% of the work in OctaEdit’s Chainer module… guess I could just do some minot tweaks to the code and do something with it… needs a wee bit of down time, needs some testers etc, etc…

First of all thanks so much AdamJay for making those sample chains and information available. Been having a great time using the single cycle bass waves on the rytm.

One quick question I had, I know it was addressed before but not explicitly. The 30-sample chains for the Rytm mean that that the start point is every 4 steps on the sample selector (0,4,8,etc). Is the end point then 3, 7, 11, etc?

Here is the link to the thread in which Dalton from Elektron “explains” the choice of 120.

From what I have observed, when playing the sample forward, the end point goes to the beginning of the selected end step, and not the end of the selected end step.

That is to say the first slice is playing from the beginning of 0 to the beginning of 4. Set start to 0, set end to 4
2nd slice = start to 4, end to 8
3rd slice = start to 8, end to 12
and so on…

Invert these values for reversed samples.

Thanks. Read that. But I failed to see the upside.

Getting off topic, to my personal situation -

I’m sarting to wonder if I should stick to the OT. If there was a second gen OT with Overbridge, the choose would be easier.

I guess wha I’m really after is a box that can produce quick rhythmic results that I can use when playing guitar or for daw work.
And I want to be able to use my mountain of samples. …ideally without having to mess with them.

I believe that Rytm can do what you seek.

Once a sample chain is imported into your project and RAM, the only “mess” is setting the HLD accordingly and DEC to a short time. Then you can just use the STA (start) knob to scroll through your hits to find the best one. Starting with envelope adjustments means you won’t have to fuss with the end point until after you’ve selected your hit. (See the first thread I linked to about sample packs, earlier in this thread)
You can load up different chains on that same drum track, and you would only have to adjust HLD if the new chain has a different slice division, otherwise it stays the same.

From a librarian perspective, the chains act as a folder full of hits, this way. Your sample RAM pool is the filing cabinet.

Plus, with Rytm you get the ability to layer great analog synth drums (just excuse the cymbals)’ and amazing FX.
Also, DAW integration will be much tighter thanks to forthcoming OverBridge. And Rytm is the best Elektron for “quick rythmic results” that are useable.

Unless by “mess with”, you mean turn your mountains of samples into Rytm chains. If that is the case, I can help with that to some degree. Or maybe Rusty will have RytmChainer up and running by then.
Either way, the time you put in is an investment that pays back.

Thanks for input man. That’s all reassuring after my initial disappointment that sample chains do not work exactly the same as in the OT.

Specific questions - can you adjust the start point in a sample chain via an LFO? Randomizing the doubt that is played?

You can!
Be sure to have the envelope HLD and DEC set accordingly for a single hit, though, with end point all the way to 120.
This plus the same LFO shape and speed on the FX track is very powerful together.mhaving random hits and stabs delayed and reverberated, or compressed heavily… It’s very powerful and takes little time to set up

My favorite thing to do is assign start points to scenes, then the 12 pads become quick remix pads.
In fact you could also use a scene pad to trigger that sample LFO on how and when to do its thing.

Rytm is a beast!

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Lol, we both came up with the same/obvious name.

I started RytmChainer yesterday, but I think I’ll ship the early access release of OctaEdit first, and then I should be able to bang RC out in the meantime.

Then again shouldn’t this functionality already be in another bit of software?

Maybe we should have a little catch up sometime, because, you know, I have tons of spare time.

How will the RytmChainer work, Rusty?

The user drops in a number of samples and it will detect the length of the longest one, make that the division length (so each hit is that long), and output a wav at the appropriate resolution?

That would be a fantastic tool!

Or define a tempo, then use that as the basis for the division length…

Problem with a) is when you drop that crash in with a long decay and 17 seconds of silence afterwards… then you’ll end up with an audio file longer then the capabilities of the Rytm…

Problem with b) is on a strict division length, that crash would cutoff at the division marker…

So… why not both?

Both sounds good to me! I always ended up with some long chains when making kits due to one or two looong kicks. Back when I was using the OT a couple years ago.

Can you elaborate on the Rytm’s restrictions that you mentioned?
Is it an issue with max individual file size - can’t have a really long chain? Or total ram issue - can’t have too many long chains?

Sorry if some of this is obvious. I haven’t read the manual yet.

I beleive there is a fixed limit on the size of an audio file that can be imported. I need to do some research around what it is though…

That makes two of us.

I’ve read the max file is around 4 minutes long, or just over 23MB. (However, this, I have not tested)
Per project sample memory is 11:07 at 16bit, mono, 48khz.
aka 64MB.

I have not experienced any issues with “too many chains”
I’ve loaded my entire project ram with 127 various chains, of 15 slice, 30 slice, and 60 slice lengths without issue. I did fill the RAM doing this. I was stress testing. Everything worked fine.

In most cases, the first limitation you would encounter is running out of RAM (64MB). Depending on the tails of your drum and sample hits, most 30 slice chains are 800KB to 1MB. And you only have room for about 70 of those.
It depends on the chain. If it’s all quick little FM glitches and blips and bleeps, you’ll use far less than, say, synth stabs or cymbals.

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I would describe that much memory as ‘a good amount’, but it’s not enough to just go crazy with, as you made clear.

With the kind of hits I have around, I would definitely taper off some sounds quicker than I would otherwise when making chains.

That’s kind of a downer, but if I really need some super special 10 second kick, maybe it should be off chains, as an individual sample.

Definitely good enough to work with.

Often, when I am rendering chains and have some hits that have longer tails, I’ll put them toward the end of the chain, and just have those hits occupy multiple slices.

So a 30 slice chain may have 28 hits, and then a 29th long tail hit that occupies 2 slice lengths.

In fact, I believe the cymbals in my TR-606 chain in the Files section here are formatted in that chain very similarly.

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