It’s not the sampler. It’s me. I just don’t like anything about it, really.
But I also love the Circuit Rhythm and my blackbox, so that’s where I’m coming from.
3 Likes
It was an instant dislike for me and I sold it very quickly. No regrets there , but I do read this thread and wish I felt differently.
2 Likes
The SP404 workflow and UI are definitely an acquired taste, not for everyone. I love the immediacy of the device, but then I also don‘t need it to be everything for every occasion either (eg an MPC would be more suited for that).
I didn‘t like the first half hour/hour with it, until I started to get the idea, from there it‘s been a real joy since 
muscle memory took over fairly quickly, as illogical as it all seems in the beginning, there just is something about the way everything is designed that just works for me.
I can see how it could be that it doesn‘t work for others though, definitely a sampler full of idiosyncracies.
2 Likes
That’s exactly my experience. I just don’t get this talk about immediacy. To me it’s just a combination of awkward combos, strange pipelines and not all that much headroom going on either. And even for a bang on sampler, extremely limited in just working the mix.
I realise this is me completely not getting it, by saying so. So I wanna repeat - it’s not the sampler. It’s me. I get, from what I hear and see, that people make amazing things with it. And it’s endorsed by acts that actually have some kind of rep at stake.
So it’s me.
But dear god, the shit the rest of you have to put up with, to like this one 
6 Likes
Now don’t go and get another Mpc, not even the keys. We warned you!
5 Likes
Totally. I got your words pinned to the wall since last time. Not going there. Promise
3 Likes
I think the SP 404 is a great all around tool. Right now I’m using it as a sound bank for my pyramid to go along with my Matrixbrute and Micromonsta2. Sold my Rytm as I was only using it as a sound bank also but there are so many more sounds I can trigger from the pyramid to the 404…its fantastic for that. If there is a sample that does not sound right I can add some FX and resample and there it is … super quick.
I can take it on vacations and just jam or hook it to my ipad for more sampling goodness.
I think the thing is a steal at $500 and can be used for so many things. IMO
3 Likes
Funny thing, not a damn soul in Sweden wants to buy mine. No surprise, though. We consider Swedish House Mafia part of our musical legacy.
1 Like
This is a real limitation that I don’t see highlighted enough. A casualty of the "Always Be Resampling” mentality is that you’re constantly mixing down, all the time, at every compositional step. If you didn’t pan the sample where you wanted or get the levels spot on, or give it enough space with reverb, or… before resampling, you’re stuck with it forever.
This is freeing in a “don’t look back” or “if it sounds good, it is good” kind of way. But is murder for people used to working with stems. I’ve been looking for examples for how SP Culture™ deals with this, but I think the answer is “moar FX”? Like, who cares if your levels are bang on if you crank up the compression on the vinyl sim? And who cares about the stereo image if you’ve got at least an element with juno chorus or one of the ping-pong delays/reverbs?
But I’m curious about how other people deal.
4 Likes
Yes, this reliance on the internal fx didn’t quite work for me, since tracks quickly got overprocessed. The onboard fx are good but compared to my resampling workflow with the blackbox and my boards, which is just as quick and way more flexible, I just didn’t quite see gain.
I get the concept behind it, but I felt this was what I was already doing with other kits, and to a level where I just enjoyed the results more but still had the flexibility of working the mix as well.
I’m not slamming the SP, but since we’re talking, some perspective might perhaps not hurt, since it’s very much an all song and praise kit and I’m pretty sure that for some, this just won’t be true. I consider these threads as much an informal consumer guide to curious explorers as it is just a nice place to hang out if you’re into the machine.
11 Likes
I’ve had my SP a few days now and it’s my first experience of a device like this. It’s also a stark contrast to how I’ve worked in the past (Ableton or MPC or Elektron device). It’s a breath of fresh air. I’m slowly getting the workflow down and it really encourages/implores you to make a decision and move on. For us that suffer with option paralysis this device is a great option. Whilst the step sequencer addition is nice, so far I’ve really enjoyed playing live in to the sequencer. The novelty might wear off but so far, sitting on the couch with my headphones, SP and iPhone at the end of a busy day is really doing the trick.
4 Likes
I’m not really surprised as the hip hop culture isn’t nearly as strong here in Sweden as it is in other regions - and Sweden is the mother of both Elektron and Teenage Engineering.
At the right price point, I might be interested in testing your 404 and flipping it if it isn’t for me either.
2 Likes
Any of you all have the TX-6? I’m wondering if something like this would be possible with it:
I’m in the market to replace my Soundcraft 12MTK since it’s getting fiddly and scratchy and was hoping the TE kit would offer this type of hybrid workflow that i enjoy from the SoundCraft.
Definitely some valid points. I have to remind myself that my brain and general workflow has been catered around these machines for so long, that I have a slightly warped and biased opinion on the usability of the MKII and simplicity of its interface.
While SP’s have always a had a simple what you see what you get interface, It’s ease of use is not that simple. In fact, it’s limitations and open ended workflow have made it kind of pita for a first time user. To make anything substantial requires a lot of work and patience, similar to a craftsman making furniture by hand as opposed to using a C&C router.
Terrible analogy, but greatly describes my experience using a MPC One in comparison to a SP404. While I found it much easier to create on the MPC ONE, I felt that all my creations seemed very similar pre-fab constructed and vanilla. I guess the beauty with SP LIFE is that you are much more dependent on your own recipes.
Luckily for me, I got used to this during my musical infancy, when I early on fell hard for 404 OG’s limitations, quirkiness, weird workarounds. I was not classically trained, and only experience making music was on Reason 3.0 a year before I got my 404. I dove in and spent years experimenting trying harness this wild beast developing my own oddball approach and recipes.
Some old SP TIPS for new users
-
When baking, it is easier to add more salt than to take it away. The SP effects, can be quite heavy handed, I try to be aware of this at all times when resampling. Less is more. Especially when i know I will be running through more pass thrus.
-
When using the Resample Method, I normally prep all my ingredients, before assembling the meal. Coming from the original 404/sx/A that did not have any dedicated panning without using an effect and resampling, this was extremely important. Getting Levels right and thinking the long game. There was no velocity changes, resample same hat on to two pads, manually change volume on one or more hat for example.
-
THE SPECIAL SAUCE IS BAKING IN DIFFERENT COMBOS. That Nonjuror outlines this is his videos pretty well, also the old Mr. DIBIASE workshop on the OG SP 404.
ALL THIS BEING SAID IS TO SAY THAT THE MKII IS LIKE A GAME GENIE FOR OLD USERS!!
So easy now. Hardly have to prep. So many dedicated functions replacing resample workarounds.
Multiple effects banks meaning you don’t have to commit to test recipes. Get things tight with levels and panning in the sequencer, once you like, resample pattern to pad.
Think this is why I think some people are so fired up about this thing, basically took something we painstakingly love and made is sooo much more convenient without changing the secret sauce.
19 Likes
I don’t think this is a casualty, it’s just how this particular device works (and/or has evolved), but the result is that it lends itself more to certain results than others. If you want pristine and elaborately sequenced tracks, well, you can do it on the 404 with some effort and sacrifice, but it’s going to be much easier and more fun on various other devices.
I think, as I suggested before the update, that this is one of the dangers of adding stuff like the step sequencer - it nudges the 404 into the realm of the all-in-one dawless wonder, rather than the accomplished and unique specialist - which if we’re not careful leads us back to the definition of ‘instrument’.
I don’t object to the sequencer - it’s probably unavoidable once you have 16 pads, and it gives people another way to enjoy the 404 - but I think it does dilute the SP magic a little, and I’m starting to think that the synths on the modern MPCs have a similar effect, even though they’re really handy to have and can sound great, and I use them regularly. There’s still a part of me that wishes there was a current MPC model that just did sampling and sequencing.
I’m not proposing a Luddite sampler militia, not at this stage, but I do think there’s a discussion to be had about the emerging trend of one-stop devices. My most used piece of gear at the moment is the Force, which is definitely a prime example of these, and I certainly won’t be handing it back in protest. I just like to think that they’ll always be balanced by more limited and idiosyncratic options, and this is relevant to the 404 because it’s exactly what the previous models were, and I think it’s an environment where interesting things can happen.
Now I’m starting to sound alarmist as well as regressive, and it’s 10pm and it’s still hot, so I’d probably better stop. To sum up, 404MKII is great, the update is great, and it’s easily my favourite modern Roland. The worm in the apple: I sometimes wonder if we’ll see any new lines of gear that develop a personality and inspire a following the same way the SP series has since the release of the 202.
14 Likes
Great discussion there @Sleepynumb @NickD, lots of interesting & inspiring stuff in your posts!
4 Likes
Maybe I dreamt it, but I think there was a way to press record, then have the recording on stand-by until a sound is played? Did I make it up or did change some settings?
2 Likes
Yup. You’re looking for COUNT IN. Hit SHIFT+PAD10 until the message reads “COUNT-IN WAIT”.
2 Likes
Awesome, thanks!
1 Like
Just got my MKII. Really surprised how that worked out for me after reading everything making it sound like they were backed up until 2023.
Anyways, @echo_opera I have a Tx-6 and AUM but just so we’re clear you want the TX-6 plugged into the iOS device with USB, have each track individually going through AUM tracks for different effects, and then an audio master line out of the TX-6 plugged into the 404s audio inputs, right? (The diagram has the blue lines going to the USB slot and I haven’t tried a USB hub to see if that works with the TX-6).
1 Like