I have a question about replacing a Boss RC-600 with an Octatrack as for it´s looping funtions.
I play in an electro band with a cello player who builds up string parts via his looper.
Fist he used a RC-300 which is not usable in midi slave mode so he upgraded to a RC-600 (if interested you can read my rant about this piece of sh… in another post. )
I am under the impression that a lot of looper pedals are made for solo-artists who don´t have to sync with other stuff (synth, sequencers,…).
The biggest problem is sync. We can´t live without proper midi sync.
As I know the Octatrack is quite solid in midi sync I would be eager to hear if my idea seams to be feasible.
I know the Octatrack quite well for playing back stems (static and flex) but never used it as a looper.
Our goal was to use a rock solid midi master clock and leave everything else in slave mode, or use the looping Octatrack as a master clock
We need 4 tracks in which looping would happen.
This tracks need to be silent when recording (monitor off I guess).
Overdubs need to be possible.
The tracks should be mutable (might be easy via midi)
We already have a Behringer FCB1010 which should work as footpedal for all the tasks.
These are the things that I am quite sure the Octatrack can do but I have not started figuring this out.
I watched a lot of tuts and searched the forum, though.
Might it be possible to delete a recording when it was not good enough?
I am greatful for any input on this.
PS:
Even if someone can point me to a looping device with rock solid midi sync would be appreciated.
A lot of the highly recommended devices are not available atm.
1, 2, 3, 4 possible on an Octatrack.
Can’t say for 5.
You might want to check the OT manual and the PickUp machine section.
A Flex machine can also be used although less similar than a traditional looper.
Per se, there is no Undo on the OT (i know that’s a scandal) but an erase function for the PickUp machine and a workaround is possible using a Flex machine (switching pattern).
To be honest, i would not recommend the OT for someone just looking for a traditional looper: it’s overkill and cumbersome in the looping field.
I’m using a Booomerang looper that served me very well for like 12 years now. 4 tracks possible, never ran any issue with MIDI (slave only), live performance oriented. Can’t say for any other hardware looper but it’s tragi-comic to see they did not resolve the Midi sync on the RC600 as the RC300 claimed to do it but not (total scam for me, enough to scare me away from that brand).
The main problem with OT as a looper is if you need to record loops longer than 64 steps, and/or undefined length.
It definitely can be used as a looper, but it doesn’t have all features regular loopers have, like recording length, auto crossfade, undo…
There are different firmware for it.
OT needs midi notes, or CC59 with the ability to set values.
RC600 should be able to be slaved, you have to send minimum midi data (clock, transport, a few CCs). You may need to filter midi notes sent to it, that’s the worse.
You can use RC600 as master clock, OT slaved. OT can send back Clock/Transport via midi out.
We sadly made quite the total opposite experience with to new devices.
I filtered everything out but pure clock (and for experiment start, stop, continue) with my mioXM.
The RC-600 surprised us with a total system error on both brand new devices.
We bought a new one because we thought the first one was faulty. Not so. Faulty by design.
Because we know the intricacies of midi (and jitter most of all) we introduced a ERM Multiclock to reduce the jitter.
The Multiclock is by sure one of the most stable clock sources you can buy (it´s really expensive) and the guarantee to have jitters low to the range of 20 microseconds.
This surprisingly and audibly made the Elektron machines even tighter but did not help the RC-600 in slave mode.
It just crashed.
So we tried to use the RC-600 as a midi master which introduced heavy jitter on all Elektrons and really spoiled the groove. We had our OT & DT jump around 5 BPM up and down while synced to the RC-600.
I had a talk on the forum with a guy who predicted such a behaviour and I thought that I am smart and it wouldn´t happen to me.
I understand your suggestions about the OT and we are probably away from this as we talked about it just a few minutes ago.
We might try to incorporate the HeadrushLooperboard and see if this is more stable.
I use an EHX 45000 slaved to an OT for live looping. And a Keith mcmillen footswitch. I am super happy with the combo. It is very easy to handle for live looping of acoustic instruments.
I tried the OT alone, I honestly just am more comfortable with the direct access to additional tracks parameters on the 45000.
The midi of the 45000 is pretty solid.
I have no idea what could have caused this but after my bandmate bought it we heared a lot of bad things about the midi sync.
It is advertised differently and even the people at Thomann told us it would work.
Thomann is helpful and fair.
I mean our setup is far from exotic. A few synths, the looper, qualitiy midi stuff (mioXM/ERM).
It´s also about availability. Heared some folks hailing the Pigtronix…it´s not easily available in germany atm.
EHX of course is an option but sadly has only one pair of stereo outs.
Do have personal experiences with the Aeros?
Comments are not so promising. Talks are about unfinished beta product.
Therefor I didn´t considered to buy one as it has to work on stage.
That´s what I often hear about it.
We have that on our list but it does not fit right into our setup as we need multiple outputs to be treated differently. Or at least internal FX but 2 pairs of stereo outputs is actually a must.
Yeah I know what you mean. The OT is a beast but you have to want to dig into it.
It´s good to hear the 45000 is solid and maybe we could pair two of them wich then increases the switching for our cello player…well could maybe be done in his helix effects and an additional send.
From just the specs on paper the RC-600 would have been ideal for us. Not working midi connectivity is nogo, though.
My cello buddy probably want´s something that is more dedicated to looping.
He is not so much into nerdy, technical stuff. Haptic elements and wygiwys is what he likes.
This is important for a performance to feel comfortable with your equipment.
This is what immediately let my doubt my own idea to get an OT for the task.
I thing the headrush will be our next try.
In my impatient experience you’d have to invest about as much time as your cellist has learning their instrument for the Octatrack to become spontaneously rewarding and non infuriating in a live looping situation.
Maybe this helps: I have a rc202 with the same soundengine. Its connected to a mpc live, with all but clock filtered out on the midi channel.
If I start the mpc I get a system error. I just press exit and after that the looper works fine.
I use it as a slave and it functions. Tempo changes are tough, but just letting it loop is okay. Not as tight as can be, but perfectly workable.
Not the same as RC600 (which is the same as RC505 MKII). New 32 bit audio engine.
RC202 is similar to RC505 MKI. I had both. Same behavior as slave, receiving Clock only : slight timestretch fluctuations especially after Play the beginning, but no freeze.
Yes, RC600 and RC505 MKII had 1 or 2 updates since release…
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