Re-sampling: how *not* to sample & pitch-up (doubling original speed) continuously, because it's impossible ... duh, me. (Though with quantum computing ... :s)

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#21

OK, I’ll admit up front that I read this thread a bit too fast, so ignore me if I’m talking nonsense. I got the impression that part of the problem was to avoid repeating the 2x speed recording twice. Could slices be an acceptable solution?

You can have slices on an audio buffer even though the actual audio content changes. So if you have, say, 16 step recording, sliced into 8 slices, you could play back the slices at double speed first as slice 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and then for the second half a different order to avoid the repetition.

#22

Slices can be interesting too. :wink:

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#23

I’ve been trying to avoid talking nonsense throughout, so you’re in good company!

Can you slice a ‘live’ recording too, i.e. when the sample is recorded from an input and held in the recorder buffer of a ‘flex’ track? Maybe that’s exactly what you meant. I still think the problem would stand with having ‘gaps’ between the sampled material because you can’t record enough to have a continuous flow of the ‘sped-up’ part. But … if I can ‘pre-slice’ audio in the flex buffer, that might allow for some creative ways to fill in those gaps.

#24

There can be no gap if you wait to play 2x until half of the recording.
I feel transparent. Let’s have a beer.

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#25

Yes, that is what I mean. You can slice the recording buffers. The slices will still be kept, even if the actual sample data in the buffers gets replaced. Example (assuming a 64 step pattern):
Flex machines playing buffer 1 and 2 respectively on track 1 and 2. Both recording buffers already sliced with 16 slices each.

Track 1 records 32 steps starting on step 1.
Track 2 records 32 steps starting on step 33.

Track 1 playback slices in order from step 17 to 32.
Track 1 playback slices reshuffled from 33 to 48.
Track 2 playback slices in order from 49 to 64.
Track 2 playback slices reshuffled from 1 to 16.

…or something to that affect. I haven’t actually tried this, though. But that was the basic idea. Naturally, you’d either have to start with something already in the recording buffers or sample for a full pattern before this would behave…

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#26

Interesting, but if you want to play a whole recording 2x you need to wait half of the normal speed original playing.
Don’t know if everybody knows that kind of records here (I’m used to a french forum) but I did a few things experiencing realtime playing pitch effects (Timestretch off, with a guitar) and simple tricks can be used to stay before the real position of recording, and keep realtime playing :

Pitch down : Pitch = - 12, for exemple, at the beginning of playing
Reverse : Rate - 63, after a while because you can’t play the end of nothing
Lfos on pitch, with Saw, Tri…
Normal play, other pitch values, 7 is 1.5x normal play, - 5, etc…you can mess it with random Lfos or random values, but you can calculate it to return to a sync normal playing.

Hard to handle, but crazier than Pickups! :slight_smile:
Sorry for my english weakness.

Octatrack Live Sampling Tricks
#27

Slices should give more possibilities, I’m eager to combine it. :wink:

#28

It sounds like you’re having fun!

#29

Just out of interest: how would one double the speed of a sample (the same if recorded ‘live’ or pre-loaded, I’d assume …) without doubling up the pitch? It’d require time-stretching, I’d guess. But do you need to configure the recorder/sample settings and attributes to do this?

#30

Actually it’s Pitch Shift - 12 then Pitch +12, time stretch is not use to change the tempo.

You need to Pitch shift - 12 your recording (time strech on, without changing tempo), and then you record it again with recording played x2 with Pitch = 12 (time strech of).

#31

Here’s a very quick take of some simple drumming with this method, some sequenced stuff, and a bit of delay. The levels aren’t great, and the playing is so-so! But I just wanted to give a sense of what I’ve been trying this for. Maybe should have done so at the outset. (I also cut a couple of the repetitions after, on computer, but that’s the only editing).

https://soundcloud.com/hemidemisemi/double-click

Any feedback would be welcome.

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#32

Interesting ! So we only hear the pitched drumming, not the original ?
Abhoth’s idea of slices in a kind of randomness would maybe suits your style ?

#33

Just the pitched-up, re-sampled material, yes.

I haven’t even begun to properly play with the things people suggested yet - yes, it could nicely fuse performance and pre-prepared material.

#34

In french, there is an old expression :
“You mustn’t go faster than the music”. :wink:
Don’t hurry.

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#35

this thread is bending my mind.

some excellent ideas here.

#36

This is sweet!.. Reminds me of Food’s album “Quiet Inlet.” I can’t find a YouTube link for the track “mictyris” but the first seconds of this performance (as well as the rest of it) sound like what you’re going for!

I will dig in on this in the morning and hope to contribute meaningfully to this quest

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#37

^ Strønen is a genius - I’ve been mesmerized by him on many an occasion, top drawer percussives … normally he uses boss sp samplers, I recall reading a tweet of his explaining deep frustration with migrating to the :elot: … I think he gave up on the OT, the boss seems so much easier to capture and exploit small samples on the fly

I’m much more into his solo stuff or especially the Humcrush stuff … all sampled and sequenced live … would love to have seen him follow the OT path

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idkKtQtwpXo

#38

This is brilliant! The way he is playing near the beginning is how I often play. I have a very limited kit at present (just snare, hi-hat, ride, kick) so it encourages a lot of free-improvisation, playing the rims, objects on the snare - anything and everything to extend the sound. It’s really encouraging to see someone working that into something more protracted and defined. This thread reflects another approach, of more tight, inter-weaving rhythmic lines, odd & irregular rhythmic patterns. (A lot like what he starts doing about 43 minutes in). Very unusual to hear such an open style, moving from non-rhythmic improvisation to pulsed, swelling beat in one performance, I find. I also have my electronic gear to the left of my hi-hat like this at present, too! But my drums don’t sound as nice as this …

At this point, I’m more inclined to doing what he starts doing just before 50 minutes in - working with short sequences that intersperse with pulse-based live percussion (but without the pulse being audibly marked … no 4/4 kicks, or techno hi-hats closing things off like that). Almost a modular approach to rhythmic variation, using cells of varied lengths and sound-atmosphere.

It’s funny and should be embarrassing to know that what I was originally trying to do was literally impossible! But the process of figuring that out, and the fact that it has led to new inspiration was totally worth it, worth exposing the process/effort for feedback. Any other recommendations or tracks by these artists, maybe favourites of his solo playing? Thanks for responding - a pleasant surprise.

#39

I can see why the Octatrack would be a challenge to navigate when you’re in the midst of playing (one stick in your mouth)! It seems designed for use with both hands, in order to properly be a ‘dynamic & performance’ sampler. There are certain things that should be very simple (and perhaps I just haven’t cracked them) which, for me, would make working in a similar way as this much more approachable. I can see why the feeling of something inhibiting your playing - which is of vital importance, and non-negotiable in a way - could become an obstacle, despite its near-infinite possibilities. I wonder if he kept it, if it could be re-approached …

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#40

I’ve watched this Food performance a few different times, but it was only when I went looking for a good Food example for HEMIoDEMIoSEMI that I noticed the Octatrack sitting right beside Strønen. Also, he’s got that Boss Sp-555-looking sampler beside the OT, and you can see he goes for that machine quite a bit more often. And now, in googling Thomas Strønen again today, I see his new group Time Is A Blind Guide has no electronics and is all acoustic. He must have gotten really frustrated. =)

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