Push 3 Users Thread

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#3373

They made new Push 3 owners painfully aware of how little Ableton was wiling to sacrifice income from software licenses by only offering the Intro version of Live with the Push 3 standalone despite the high price of the Push 3 standalone. People who were existing Live owners didnt have much cause to gripe about that because they had already paid for a more feature-rich version of Live, myself included. But I know some non-Ableton users who were intrigued by the Push 3 at launch but absolutely could not get their heads around how much more they’d need to pay for software on top of what they already thought was a high price for the hardware. I pointed out the discount on software licenses that show up in the online store if you buy at the same time as the Push 3, but that wasnt enough to sway them.

Theres no right or wrong way of looking at it really, it just comes down to everyones own perceptions of value. Personally I thought the price was worth it but I was well aware that I was unlikely to get loads of new functionality for free for years and years to come like I’ve got out of some other hardware. The way I looked at it when I bought the Push 3 standalone was that I had chosen to buy a premium computer with a special purpose interface, and every major release cycle I would be required to invest in a software upgrade if I wanted to keep getting new features.

Perhaps Ableton will do something to reduce the price for people that only got 11 recently, perhaps they wont, I make no predictions about that. I do predict that people who stay on 11 are just going to get some bug fixes for a while (and the improvements that are still in the 11 pipeline, eg the stuff thats currently in a Live 11 beta), and will eventually end up just like any software user who doesnt upgrade, they will miss out on fixes and features.

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#3374

So I’m one of those very few who are new to Ableton and dove headfirst into the P3sa. Luckily I’m not new to audio engineering, but I didn’t pony up for the Suite license.

Can any of you gurus share some simple examples about why I should upgrade from 11 lite asap? Or will 12 be such a significant departure from 11 Suite that it could be skipped?

#3375

not now, but has a resend option i think is good.

1 Like
#3376

I honestly don’t know what isn’t in suite to know whether it’s worth it or not. The big thing is all the synths and audio effects that come with suite that really are high quality. Operator is a great FM synth and Simpler and Sampler are great samplers (the latter being abletons version of Kontakt, but maybe not as deep).

Of course you get access to Max4Live which opens up a whole world of either programming exploration but even if you don’t want to dive into that, so many free devices people have made that can enhance your experience (though mostly this would be in the software but some of it works in standalone).

I don’t know if instrument and effect racks are a thing in live intro / lite. But with racks you essentially get a modular synth system within ableton. I know Bitwig does this maybe a bit better nowadays but it’s still here in ableton where you essentially can build your own synths and that’s without event touching Max.

But yeah, even though I have a now, fairly outdated Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate license and a quite a few plugins I still primarily use stock ableton instruments and effects and most of that comes from Suite. I do have the Arturia collection and Fabfilters tools for mixing and mastering but apart from software GAS purchases you can really get everything you need with Suite. But your millage obviously will vary.

Edit: I should mention, I’ve owned the MPC Live and been a Maschine user for 10+ years (and had the Maschine+) and the devices you get with Suite and in standalone are the best devices of those three options in my opinion, from use to sound quality.

6 Likes
#3377

And more on topic with Ableton 12, I’m so hyped for the MIDI CC effect. Without getting into Max4Live I don’t think there was an easy way to save a MIDI preset for external synths, the way instrument definitions work on the Squarp Hapax. Now I’ll be able to make MIDI CC devices and save them onto the Push 3 and easily be able to modulate parameters on my hardware synths without having to look up the CC page in their manuals.

I was so close to buying another Hapax but this has killed that.

6 Likes
#3378

To be frank I think you are being a bit too negative in this whole thread without having experienced push 3.
Calling it stuck in beta software makes absolutely no sense.
Push updates and fixes are seperate from live so any functionality upgrades and bug fixes will continue even if you have Ableton 11. You just miss the new devices and such. This is also why in the news reports there’s nothing being said about push I suspect.

I am certainly curious what upgrade plan they’ll offer people that got push 3. Time will tell. I remember that upgrading to 10 before launch, like a pre-order was very reasonably discounted. And also push 3 l, and Ableton 11 work. So it’s not like your push suddenly stops working…

12 Likes
#3379

I dont think I’d describe it like that at all.

#3380

The firmware certainly is. Release notes are. Etc. That’s what I meant. As in, if you’re on 11 it’s not as if you don’t get any firmware updates for push anymore.

#3381

All the Push 3 release notes I’ve seen have been part of Live version release notes. Firmware has been delivered in conjunction with Live updates too.

#3382

Yes. So, you think when 12 is released they’ll suddenly stop updating push firmware for non 12 owners ?

I highly doubt that but we’ll see

#3383

I think it was pretty clear from the start that Push 3 standalone would eventually end up branching from Live.

Certain they are working on live 12 for it, but seeing as live 12 is now only in beta it makes sense to iron out the bugs in that before porting to Push 3.

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#3384

Not an easy answer unless you know that you want additional native devices not found in Live 11 Intro (it is intro, not Lite, right?).

The big things are track count… if you haven’t hit it, then not a point to consider.
Same goes for returns.

The biggest thing is Max 4 Live. You can get by without ever using it, or you can get by with only using what has already been created (speaking as someone that has avoided learning M4L but uses it). M4L is expansive and covers tons of utility and workflow choices in addition to instruments and effects.

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#3385

I wouldnt describe it as branching from Live. Whether Push is a priority at any particular stage of release cycles is bound to vary though, yes.

As for firmware fixes for 11 users, I expect perceptions will hinge in part on what fixes are actually going to be urgently required/deemed necessary for 11 once 12 has been out for a while. I’d assume there will still be fixes for major issues for a while, and those will get backported, but things will dwindle gradually on the Live 11 front. And eventually they will actually put some of the compelling 12 features (beyond the new instruments) into the Push 3 (as in properly accessible from the Push 3s interface), providing further impetus for users to want to upgrade to 12.

All of this still means that I would expect that at some stage people still on 11 will end up with reason to moan that they’ve been left out, but I cannot predict exactly when or what.

#3386

Let’s say they extend max4live support for push down the road. There’s no reason 11 users would not be able to update their push for that. You miss out on live specific updates but not updates that are meant for push specifically. I can’t imagine that would be the cas.

#3387

You don’t have to worry about this. You maked your choice and bought a MPC Live 2 (again) a week ago, I read in the MPC topic.

I’m sure the Push 3 Standalone will be the best choice for the long term. Ableton has proven that their support will continue for years and years.

8 Likes
#3388

Track count is definitely the biggest draw for me. I’ll usually resample Digitakt and Syntakt tracks into the OT or DT to either create stereo weight or build specific tonal range (ala a section of layered guitars or synths), which works exquisitely how I either want it or am used to it. But the P3 with Lite (yes it’s Lite) track limit is a major issue. Also adding more effect sends is a hard limit of 2, which is basically not an option at all instantly when creating any preset instrument.

M4L will likely stay a mystery for awhile. Years of programming for web might come in handy. Looks like I’ll get the robust Suite with the 12 perk down the road. Looking forward to pumping my AH+fx in to a master mix finally.

1 Like
#3389

A look inside the ambient kitchen of Martin Stürtzer, how he uses his Push 3 (controller version) for his live performances. I really enjoyed this video.

6 Likes
#3391

Imagine if Ableton made a Push SA sound module, a push without the mpe pads and most of the buttons - just a module with a screen and some knobs. What an amazing thing it would be. I know this is never going to happen but just imagine if it did…

The idea was mouthwatering before but now with the new Meld device I can’t get the thought out of my head. I really don’t want to buy a Push for these soinds and I really don’t want to be tethered to my Macbook all the time… Just imagine…

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#3392

Indeed, I’m one of them! Currently using Reason 10 and just got a used MPC Live 2 as a happy compromise because the idea of spending nearly 3.5X as much for Push 3 and Live Suite was and still is off-putting.

At a 20% discount and an implied promise of free upgrades for the next 3 years that Live 12 reigns, it’s still prohibitively expensive but perhaps a bit harder for me to resist. :thinking::money_with_wings:

#3393

I wouldnt assume that. Max for live is tied to Live in various ways, so depending on the detail of what they improve it may well require changes on the Live side that will only come to 12 not 11.

I could end up being wrong about this on some occasions in some ways, and still be right in others. All we can really say for sure is they have to balance their development resources against keeping users happy while still encouraging users to upgrade.

We dont have years of Push 3 history to aid our guesses, but I dont see why they would be any more afraid of leaving Push 3 users who stay on 11 behind any more than they are afraid of leaving Live 11 computer users behind in the era of 12. Its not like they’ve sold people hardware that has been superseded overnight. And a chunk of their business model continues to rely on giving a good chunk of existing users reasons to upgrade to the latest version, I dont see why Push 3 standalone users will be treated any differently in this respect. And while there are all sorts of things the Push 3 standalone currently doesnt do that people consider to be omissions that need to be filled in the fullness of time, they didnt promise to fill in any of those gaps at no extra cost at all, they offered no certainty, no public roadmap, and certainly no roadmap of what people could expect to come for free. They very much did promote the image of the Push 3 standalone as being something that can have a long life by upgrading the modular part of the hardware as the years go by. My attitude would be completely different if we were talking about a total dead end for existing Push 3 owners, but we arent, we’re just talking about the standard software model of paid upgrades.

1 Like