Thinking of the Midi out, and the audio interface of the Push 2 makes me realize that the Scarlett 2/2 audio interface I bought for my “cabin studio setup” to get the Live Suite license at 50% off might not get used much!
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I moved twice with Push, because I came to Ableton from Logic this year. And I’d already given up trying to use Logic as an instrument, so I’d bought a Squarp Pyramid secondhand and was routing everything through that, and using Logic only as an audio recorder and mixer.
And then I came to Ableton, and it was damn near what I wanted the Pyramid to be with mixing and everything else thrown in. I love it so far. I haven’t opened Logic in months and the Pyramid is on the floor post-Push. I really should sell that, Ableton’s been so good.
EDIT: Oh, and the CV stuff, it breathes life into all sorts of stuff. I’ve a Behringer Model D here. Push 3 has made it an MPE lead and bass tool. It’s more than the sum of its parts for that.
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Coming to Live from Logic myself. So far, I am thrilled with what Live has to offer. Wondering if Push 3 will render some of my other gear pointless. Waiting to see, though.
Edit: I should add that I also have Bitwig (bought it at a discount). I like the idea of Bitwig, and have enjoyed their video tutorials, but I am finding Live very similar in what it can do (except no Grid), but I also find Live much more inviting from a UI perspective. Not sure why.
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Regarding the pads on Push 3
Hopefully this will provide some context about why people keep saying the pads are better on Push 3.
On Push 2, I found I was constantly changing the responsiveness especially when changing from using it with drums vs pads vs keys. I do prefer playing piano with traditional keys, but when using it with Push, it took some tweaks to get the right curves on the input.
Push 3, I realize I don’t have this problem. Now, it’s not perfect as they’re still fixing things (latest public beta fixed double triggers, which I was experiencing when “Accent” was set to on), but overall I’ve been good leaving the default setting untouched.
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Ok did any of you Push 2 peeps decide to stick with the Push 2 instead, or go back to the Push 2 from the push 3 and if so why ?
I’m sticking with the 2. I like using the keyboard, mouse and screen for some things, like renaming stuff, adding instruments etc via search, and so on.
Plus, while instruments like Simpler are amazing on the Push, others are terrible. Operator has a beautiful, well-designed UI in Ableton. On the Push 2, it’s so spread out over several pages that I never find what I’m looking for.
If I did switch, it would be for the I/O, and the MPE pads.
Also, it’s good to remember that new does not always mean better:
Doesn’t apply in this case—the Push 3 looks better in most ways—but still, the old Push 2 has been amazing for years, and still is. They’re also dirt cheap used right now.
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I’ve owned Push 2 since release and had i packed up since pandemic since I was just using the computer too much and also my macbook pro 2015 always sounded like a jet engine when I plugged it in.
Ended up going Force for a few years and I immediately preordered Push 3 when announced. Had a 4-6 week wait and I decided to dust off P2 as I recently got a new macbook pro M1.
After 2 weeks, I decided to cancel my P3 preorder and will be selling my Force. I remembered why I loved the P2 + Ableton combo especially with the MBP M1, its a great workflow for me now and totally silent.
I will get a P3 in the next few years when things develop a bit more but right now it’s not worth it for me as the stuff I want to have standalone arent implemented yet. I hope they implement things like mapping macros, assign lfo’s/env follows, previews for custom instruments/drum racks and scene follow actions.
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Yeah, I really wish you could create rack effects and assign macros. Part of me knows it’d be kind of tedious but, any menu diving would be comparable to other self contained instruments and the that’s just the trade off for being untethered front the computer.
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(edited for potential idiocy)
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Agreed! I really liked the idea of the Force with mappable macros and assignable mod sources and I really hope Ableton will implement these soon.
Anyone here had a Push 2, and now has a Push 3?
What are the biggest differences for you? Has it changed how you work, or is it just a slightly better/different version of the 2?
I realise this is an old question, but I’m also considering this. (Apologies for the spreadsheet approach, but I tend to run the numbers on big buys!)
For me, although I am not absolutely burning for the new features, I can see the argument for going Push 3 regardless. Push 2 had an 8 year lifespan. If you take the price of the Push 3 and divide it by the number of months in 8 years (assuming that longevity), it works out to £9 a month. Which is not too shabby as a value for something that is considered to be an ultra premium product, and one that will likely be developed, improved and supported throughout that time if Push 2 is anything to go by.
Push 2 is of course viable if you maybe don’t want to commit fully to Push, as spending money you don’t have is never wise. But scouring Reverb, the Push 2’s I can see are anything from £360-£500. While this is clearly a lower price initially, I imagine Ableton will eventually stop supporting it or delivering updates like any other piece of discontinued hardware. Let’s say that’s 3 years from now. At an average price of £360, that’s £10 per month, and of course the device you’re getting for that money is likely older and could be prone to more issues if the owner had had it a while. At the top end where folks are asking £500, you’re paying 2/3 the price of a new Push for. I think at that price, it would need to have been bought in 2022/3.
This buy feels a bit like a computer where you can go for the older model, and that might be perfect for you. But for future proofing and upcoming improvements, it might pay long term to go for the newer model maybe? On that basis I’m swinging between 2 and 3, because the 2 looks great to dip your toe without the upfront cost, and the 3 is the forever buy.
I’ve owned a Push 2 since launch and had Push 1 before that.
The controller version of Push 3 doesn’t really appeal to me but I’m seriously considering the standalone version. The possibility of being able to sequence and record my hardware and eurorack without the laptop would be liberating.
There’s just the small matter of finding the cash.
Ableton did say they intend to support Push 2 for a long time from an environmental point of view, see here: Inside the new Ableton Push: all the technical details so far, from I/O to Max for Live - CDM Create Digital Music
This also applies to Push 2, we want to make sure Push 2 is continually updated as well.
Though that could mean anything, I did poke around a bit and found that right now, Push 2 and Push 3’s UI use different codebases (there’s a bunch of Python code that controls what you see on Push and how it interacts, and Push 3 has a more advanced version of this code), so the new features are exclusive to Push 3.
However, in the Push 3 code, there’s a bunch of stuff which essentially says “if Push 2, disable feature x”, which implies to me that they intend to switch Push 2 to this new code at some point (and therefore it will get much of the new UI). From an engineering point of view, that would be more logical than maintaining two similar but different codebases in the long term. So I’m kinda hopeful we’ll see a lot of the new UI on Push 2, it just probably wasn’t a priority for launch - I could be wrong though.
That said, if Push 2 prices haven’t dropped that much then it makes Push 3 a more tempting option! But aside from the MPE they’re definitely more similar than they are different, so a bargain 2 would be tempting.
If you want MPE and a built in soundcard it’s neat. V2 is super powerful and very similar, I own the standalone.
If it was me, I’d get a second hand deal on a v2, see if the workflow works for me, and if not sell it hopefully without much of a loss.
For what it’s worth, I prefer the feel of the pads and sensitivity on the v3, not a fan of MPE generally so that’s not a consideration.
I also have a decent soundcard, so I never use Push’s in the studio and only in standalone mode if I’m sketching ideas on the sofa with it.
Ah yeah, 3 can be powered by usb alone with normal brightness right? Quite nice for sofa use
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I can’t check that unfortunately because mine has the battery, but that could be fun too, just run laptop in clamshell mode with the ‘caffeine’ extension software to prevent the laptop falling asleep with the lid closed
Wow, thanks for the deep dive, that all sounds very technical! Cheers for describing what’s going on under the hood. It’s good to know that Push 2 could be updated, but it’s also clearly going to be de-prioritised as you say, but at least existing users will see some updates eventually.
The biggest sell of Push for me is probably the screen. I’m not in that “don’t want to look at a computer” camp by any means, but I do struggle with the size of Ableton’s layout if doing, say, detailed work on a sample or spending time dialing in parameters on a synth. I tend to rely on VSTs for anything I need to spend time on. And I’ve kinda come to the end of exploring the options, to the point that it’s time to focus on Ableton+essentials. My gut feel is that having that screen would pull me into the Abelton devices for longer, and that would be a good thing, both in terms of making working with them a little more comfortable, and encouraging me to explore them more.
Yeah I tend to go in cycles with buying. I do like to buy early-ish or at the latest mid-way through a product lifecycle, purely to give my cash the best chance to work long term. Like you say, a Push 2 is maybe not a bad deal if it’s mint. Seems like a lot are hovering in the £400-£500 area, for now, which is still a bit north of a Launchpad and about half off the Push 3. It’s not a bad deal, but it’s maybe a narrow-ish window for getting that deal right and requires a lot of trust. Dropping £400 on a new device is one thing, but for used it’s quite another - especially online.
But I guess the other thing you mentioned is also a reason to buy. I’ve picked up a couple of Novation controllers, and while they’re great value for the money - there is a feeling that they’ve been rocking the 3-4 year lifecycles. There’s a lot to be said for a company trying to do the right thing from a sustainability perspective, by committing to updating and improving it with the software.
I’ve also recently focussed back on just Ableton stock stuff, mainly because I came across some nice Youtube videos for techno where they just use stock. I’ve found I’m getting a better appreciation for sound design already, because the stock stuff tends to be more “building blocks” than an all-in-one synth+fx+presets. The stock stuff is really good too, and you get the benefit of the native UI.
I do know what you mean about the size of the UI. Being totally honest though, I bought Push 2 way back thinking the same thing as you, but I actually find it a bit annoying to use for sound design. I can’t quite put my finger on it, I think it’s partially because there’s a slight lag when you change pages so it’s not as snappy as using real hardware? And also, you’re dealing with 8 parameters at a time, which works well with e.g. Elektron stuff, which was designed for that interaction model, but Ableton devices have a lot more controls and so you can feel like you’re paging around a lot.
I actually find it better for like post-initial sound design, create some macros and use Push to control those. That way you’re not having to jump between devices and pages all the time.
Probably depends on what you’re doing though. e.g. if you’re doing more sample based stuff, Push is probably amazing, whereas I almost exclusively use synths and FX. It’s still a lovely device though!
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Interesting. I don’t anticipate doing deep sound design as you say. But what I would do is make more use of the stock presets (which I’ve criminally ignored, given how much I rate the included packs), and tweak those. I’ve been slowly making racks for the VSTs I do use, so there’s that possibility too. I’ve always fancied making use of something like Analog, and then I look at that fiddly little middle section, get frustrated with how small it is and just reach for Diva or an NI preset via KK. I used to have a Circuit, and I think that the basic workflow is nice. The LPP looks like it’s the Citrcuit for Ableton, but minus the macros. And the Push looks like the ultra-deluxe Circuit with every bell/whistle imaginable.
But I take your point, and will have to factor that into my thinking. When you describe it like that - like it’s not quiiiiiite as simple as it looks on the surface - that’s when I think about the budget options. Y’know if the integration and the screen is a case of being better in practice than reality, then I tend to think the more basic Circuit style workflow of a Launchpad (eg: just getting notes into Ableton in a more hands on way, with a bit of automation) does the trick. Is that a fair characterisation? And would you consider something like an LPP/APC64 as actually the sweet spot and potentially a smarter buy?