Project manager for Octatrack

[imacactus]

Would be great to have testers to look at latest release and feedback

Meanwhile I have started working on Parts content

[rosiusyves]

@imacactus Managed to have a look at the latest release. Tested the application on Windows 11 installed using the .exe. Succesfully loaded an clean EZBOT project that I bought some time ago.

Some things I noticed.

v0.1.20

General remarks

• Refresh button is only shown when hovering over the button

Main screen

• When scanning my local Downloads folder, 3 projects are shown.

  • Downloads
  • VTTRANSITIONPROJECT
  • Ultimate FX 1.5.3

  Then only 1 location is found containing another project. Maybe because this project contains a AUDIO folder?

  • Monolith

  Could be useful to show more information on why this is the case.

• When trying to open some projects (maybe wrong versions?), the loading animation (Loading project data…) is shown indefinitly. An timeout/error would be more useful.

  An error is shown however when the project does not contain a “Project” (label is greyed out). “Error loading project: No project file found”

Overview

• Information shown in different amount of columns, results in scattered lay-out
• Gain AB, Gain CD, Main level and Cue level shown as 64, but on device, this would be shown as +63

Parts

• No changes when selecting another track (maybe track is not applicable here?)

Patterns

• Blue label “T2” is shown, not really clear what this means (display more information on hover maybe?)
• Master Len not correct? 65 steps instead of 64?
• Only 16 steps shown out of possible 64 steps per track
• MIDI tracks T1 - T8, on the Overview tab, “MIDI mode state” displays track “T9”
• Question: Is it technically correct to display recorder trigs on the normal pattern?
• Pattern 1 → Part 1 on T1 displays Total trigs of 33, only 1 trig is shown however. (maybe swing (32) is added to the amount of trigs?)

Track settings

No Track settings are shown.

Flex slots

No samples loaded.

Static slots

No samples loaded.

[Blasted_pingin]

I don’t have much time these days but I just tried the v0.1.20 on MacOS Monterey.

I’m a bit confused. I think I’d prefer to have Track / Pattern and Parts tabs merged in order to have more info at once without menu diving.

I can’t open my main projects (UTF-8 error) so the ones I open are mostly trials and errors and I know them much less.

So if i understand the picture, Length is 24 steps, based on 12 steps but with a speed of 3/4? I don’t think it is correct.

I don’t understand the Total Trigs and Trigger numbers.

Also it says P-locks: 0 and displays different P-locks.

Track Settings Tab looks like that for the same project:

I dunno which kind of info are supposed to be here, if some are missing.

Samples are shown in the Flex and Static tabs but in the column for Compatibility, most of samples are marked with 2 horizontal question marks. Hovering on the symbol it says “Unrecognized format (no WAV or AIFF)” which is obviously wrong. The 2 only samples marked as compatible seem to be samples that were sampled within the OT.

That’s all I can see for now, hope that helps.

[imacactus]

Hey @rosiusyves thanks for testing !

@rosiusyves

• Refresh button is only shown when hovering over the button

Yup that’s on purpose. It’s more a developer feature than anything else.
If you think it’s useful to users I can un-mask it

@rosiusyves

Then only 1 location is found containing another project. Maybe because this project contains a AUDIO folder?

As described on readme:

The scanner distinguishes between two types of Octatrack content:

Sets (directories with an AUDIO/ folder):

• Must contain an AUDIO/ directory (even if empty)
• Must have at least one project subdirectory with .work files
• Audio pool status indicates if the AUDIO/ folder contains valid WAV/AIFF samples
• Displayed grouped by location

Individual Projects (standalone):

• Directories containing .work files directly
• No parent AUDIO/ directory
• All individual projects are collected in a single top-level “Individual Projects” section
• Useful for managing single projects or backups without full Set structure

So Downloadsdirectory is probably detected as Set because it contains an AUDIOdir and sub-dir with .work files (projects)

@rosiusyves

Then only 1 location is found containing another project. Maybe because this project contains a AUDIO folder?

Yes indeed. Is that a common pattern ? Can projects contain an AUDIO directory and load samples from there ?

I’m asking because collecting sample to projects copy files at root of project, without any directory

Maybe we can add a rule like "if AUDIO dir is found in same dir as projects files (.work) then treat it as a project, not a set

@rosiusyves

When trying to open some projects (maybe wrong versions?), the loading animation (Loading project data…) is shown indefinitly. An timeout/error would be more useful.

Loading can take some time (like 30 seconds) but it should succeed nonetheless.

Can you please send me an archive containing that project in PM so that I can check ?

@rosiusyves

• An error is shown however when the project does not contain a “Project” (label is greyed out). “Error loading project: No project file found”

That’s probably the consequence of the un-expected directory architecture

@rosiusyves

• Information shown in different amount of columns, results in scattered lay-out

Quite true. Feel free to PR a layout update if you have ideas on how to make it look nicer

@rosiusyves

• Gain AB, Gain CD, Main level and Cue level shown as 64, but on device, this would be shown as +63

Good catch, i’ll check that

@rosiusyves

• Parts: No changes when selecting another track

The Parts page is under construction. It’s gonna display all config related to machine for all tracks, hence the Track selector

@rosiusyves

• Blue label “T2” is shown, not really clear what this means (display more information on hover maybe?)

Blue bage means Audio track, Green badge means MIDI track.
Good idea to display this info on hover though

@rosiusyves

• Master Len not correct? 65 steps instead of 64?

Can you please send me that project as well ? I’ll check it
Master len should display correctly starting v0.1.20

@rosiusyves

• Only 16 steps shown out of possible 64 steps per track

Can you please double check you are loonking at the right bank/track/pattern ?
Pattern steps should display like so:

@rosiusyves

• MIDI tracks T1 - T8, on the Overview tab, “MIDI mode state” displays track “T9”

Good catch! I’ll fix that

@rosiusyves

• Question: Is it technically correct to display recorder trigs on the normal pattern?

Recorder trigs share the same pattern / steps as any other type of trig (sample, lock, etc) so I guess yeah. I’m happy for anyone to correct me if I’m mistaken

Maybe we can add a feature to toggle on/off the type of trigs to display if that’s useful. What’s your opinion ?

@rosiusyves

• Pattern 1 → Part 1 on T1 displays Total trigs of 33, only 1 trig is shown however. (maybe swing (32) is added to the amount of trigs?)

Yes it is. Swing is a kind of trig assigned to a step, so it counts. I can have it not taken into account if that makes more sense to users

@rosiusyves

Track settings

No Track settings are shown.

Tracks settings should display like so:

I just came across the issue, where nothing is displayed and clicking “refresh” fixed it. I’m going to look into it

@rosiusyves

• Flex slots: No samples loaded.
• Static slots: No samples loaded.

Any sample loaded in both sample list should be listed there.

When a sample is loaded and that the actual file is found, format/khz/bitdepth analysis takes place to check compatibility with OT sound engine

[imacactus]

Thanks for your feedback @Blasted_pingin !

@Blasted_pingin

I’m a bit confused. I think I’d prefer to have Track / Pattern and Parts tabs merged in order to have more info at once without menu diving.

Yup I get the idea.

There is gonna be a ton of info to display on Parts tab so merging both may be tricky.

Maybe we can have another Tab called “Compact view” or “Track view” displaying both Parts + Pattern config for 1 single track/bank/pattern (without select-all).
That way there would be enough space to make everything important visible straight away.

What do you think ?

@Blasted_pingin

I can’t open my main projects (UTF-8 error) so the ones I open are mostly trials and errors and I know them much less.

Did you send a project with that error to @dijksterhuis for debug ?

@Blasted_pingin

So if i understand the picture, Length is 24 steps, based on 12 steps but with a speed of 3/4? I don’t think it is correct.

Indeed that does not look right! Can you please send me that project ?

@Blasted_pingin

I don’t understand the Total Trigs and Trigger numbers.
Also it says P-locks: 0 and displays different P-locks.

32 Swing trigs + 16 sample trigs = total 48. But with a pattern of 12 steps, that sounds weird too. Unless some triggs are picked up from disabled steps

I need to look into it in any case

@Blasted_pingin

Track Settings Tab looks like that for the same project

That looks about right.

These are settings from patterns associated to track:

@Blasted_pingin

most of samples are marked with 2 horizontal question marks. Hovering on the symbol it says “Unrecognized format (no WAV or AIFF)” which is obviously wrong

Indeed. Just noticed it too on a test project: these icons should not display when sample file is not found locally (because no analysis can take place).

Gonna prevent this from happening when it should not

@Blasted_pingin

That’s all I can see for now, hope that helps.

It does help, thanks a lot !

[Blasted_pingin]

@imacactus

Maybe we can have another Tab called “Compact view” or “Track view” displaying both Parts + Pattern config for 1 single track/bank/pattern (without select-all).
That way there would be enough space to make everything important visible straight away.

What do you think ?

Let’s see what you have in mind, I just gave a feedback on what I saw but I’m sure you have a good vision for longer term

@imacactus

Did you send a project with that error to @dijksterhuis for debug ?

Yep, it seems it’s not a small job to fix that error. It needs rewriting, let’s see if/when he’ll have time to work on it.

@imacactus

Indeed that does not look right! Can you please send me that project ?

Ouch, I forgot which project it was and the name doesn’t appear on the screen capture… EDIT: found it!

@imacactus

32 Swing trigs + 16 sample trigs = total 48

Do we need to know how many trigs are in a pattern? To what end?

@imacactus

these icons should not display when sample file is not found locally

It could show that files are not found though (I guess you already planned that)

Let’s keep up the good work!!

[imacactus]

New release: v0.1.21 (changelog)

---

I have made some progress on displaying Parts data:

No need to test yet: Need to implement remaining pages (FX) and then do it for all machines of Audio tracks, then also do it for MIDI tracks.

Meanwhile I have also fixed some feedbacks:

@imacactus

Blue bage means Audio track, Green badge means MIDI track.
Good idea to display this info on hover though

Done: T1-8 will now always display the same way (with colored badge + hover tooltip) everywhere an app

@rosiusyves

MIDI tracks T1 - T8, on the Overview tab, “MIDI mode state” displays track “T9”

Fixed

[imacactus]

@Blasted_pingin

Samples are shown in the Flex and Static tabs but in the column for Compatibility, most of samples are marked with 2 horizontal question marks. Hovering on the symbol it says “Unrecognized format (no WAV or AIFF)” which is obviously wrong. The 2 only samples marked as compatible seem to be samples that were sampled within the OT.

Fixed: Icons now display with the correct rotation, and Compat icons only display when relevant (when audi file was actually found)

[imacactus]

@rosiusyves

No Track settings are shown.

Fixed that too

Issue was occurring when “All patterns” was previously selected in patterns tab.
It now displays correctly:

[imacactus]

@Blasted_pingin

Let’s see what you have in mind, I just gave a feedback on what I saw but I’m sure you have a good vision for longer term

Have a look to screenshots above, it’s just the start but you’ll see the idea !

@Blasted_pingin

Yep, it seems it’s not a small job to fix that error. It needs rewriting, let’s see if/when he’ll have time to work on it.

Fingers crossed !

@Blasted_pingin

EDIT: found it!

Gonna look at it now

@Blasted_pingin

Do we need to know how many trigs are in a pattern? To what end?

It’s true that it does not seem very useful, considering displaying pattern steps gives the same info and in a more pleasant way. Let’s remove that section and call it a day

Done:

@Blasted_pingin

It could show that files are not found though (I guess you already planned that)

Already done: that’s the “Status” column

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks @Blasted_pingin

[imacactus]

@Blasted_pingin

So if i understand the picture, Length is 24 steps, based on 12 steps but with a speed of 3/4? I don’t think it is correct.

That pattern is actually 12 steps long playing at 3/4 speed @Blasted_pingin
However, there was an error in Master Len value in a specific use case that your project highlighted > Now fixed

New release: v0.1.22 (changelog)

[imacactus]

Also added in v0.1.23 :

• Scroll-to-top button
• Persistance of user preferences regarding tables of Sample Slots

[imacactus]

Creating new release v0.1.24 (changelog) with all data from Parts

It includes:

• SRC, AMP, LFO, FX1 and FX2 for Audio tracks
• NOTE, ARP, LFO, CTRL1, CTRL2 for MIDI tracks
• Fixed also LFO custom waveforms

Now looking for testers

[Blasted_pingin]

@imacactus

Creating new release v0.1.24

I installed the latest… v0.1.35! That many versions released within the last 24H?
I tried several projects and the info seem correct so far!

Some remarks:

• I don’t know where are you at with the UI but it’s still very confusing for me.
  Lots of info and I’m not sure we really need to get all the info displayed unless we need them if the final goal is to transfer patterns across projects. I am projecting here, maybe you have other goals.

For instance, the P-locks info are cramped:

I don’t really know, maybe it’s just a matter of habit.

• The most disturbing for me is the scaling. I am using a 13’ screen and i always feel the need of a Zoom out where I would display everything at 50%. I would like to display things in columns if possible.

Too much space between info and scrolling. Generally I’d like to have an overview of more things at once rather than having to scroll and to read info that are displayed very much apart from each other.

That’s what I see on my screen when I try to display all Audio Tracks at once, I see only 2.

• Maybe also I’d try to have 4 Parts info displayed within the same screen with different colour in background or simply negative colours. I feel like the fact the general background is black and the background of any square as well doesn’t make the info stand out.

• Too much menu diving and some info are repeating. Maybe a unique place for Tracks?

• I dunno if it’s possible but a unique tab for displaying parts and patterns would allow an easy drag and drop or copy/paste to a new project for example.

• Maybe the status icon of unfound samples could display “sample not found” when we hover it? Maybe there could be an option ala Ableton to retrieve automatically the samples from a disk/folder?

@imacactus

It includes:

• SRC, AMP, LFO, FX1 and FX2 for Audio tracks
• NOTE, ARP, LFO, CTRL1, CTRL2 for MIDI tracks
• Fixed also LFO custom waveforms

Couldn’t find any of these info at first. I had to check your screen captures. I would have expected to see these in the Tracks tab. Here again, it takes 7 clicks if I wanna go to Parts tab (1 click), a Bank (2 clicks), a Track (2 clicks), a Part (1 click), one of the tabs (1 click) and a bit of scrolling to find the LFOs.

That’s it for today, thanks again! I hope I don’t sound too harsh, I’m having a rough week, I might come off as complaining, it’s just tired me struggling to explain things in english tonight

PS: The LFOs displayed are the cherries on the top

[imacactus]

Hey @Blasted_pingin !

@Blasted_pingin

I installed the latest… v0.1.35! That many versions released within the last 24H?

I’m currently implementing auto-updates > So I needed to create a lot a new versions to test that feature

New version will be checked/downloaded when app starts or by clicking on version number in top right corner. At least it that’s how it’s supposed to

With v0.1.35 it may work-ish but you will probably need to restart app manually to see new version. I’m looking for a way to improve that

@Blasted_pingin

I tried several projects and the info seem correct so far!

Good news

@Blasted_pingin

I’m not sure we really need to get all the info displayed unless we need them if the final goal is to transfer patterns across projects

Yes goal is ability to copy steps, patterns, parts, tracks and banks.

You are probably right in any case: we can simplify info displayed on steps themselves, use smaller/more minimalist icons and let detail be visible in step details pane.

Would that be better ?

@Blasted_pingin

I am using a 13’ screen and i always feel the need of a Zoom out where I would display everything at 50%. (…) Too much space between info and scrolling. Generally I’d like to have an overview of more things at once rather than having to scroll and to read info that are displayed very much apart from each other.

Noted, thanks for the feedback ! I’m gonna look for a way to fit more content into same space; maybe even implement a kind of scaling feature

Maybe we could even have a “Compact view” toggle which would shrink all empty spaces

Main issue is that when displaying only 1 track, you wouldn’t want to have most of page empty, right ? So need to find a way to have best of both worlds

@Blasted_pingin

I would like to display things in columns if possible.

Can you please describe what it would look like ?

@Blasted_pingin

Maybe also I’d try to have 4 Parts info displayed within the same screen with different colour in background or simply negative colours.

Noted, it was on my todo already ^^

@Blasted_pingin

I feel like the fact the general background is black and the background of any square as well doesn’t make the info stand out.

Gotcha, need more contrasts to make info stand-out

@Blasted_pingin

Too much menu diving and some info are repeating.

Can you please pinpoint repeating info ? If there is any that’s a mistake

@Blasted_pingin

Maybe a unique place for Tracks?

“Patterns Settings per Track” are however not bound to Parts, but to Patterns sooo maybe we can more “Tracks Settings” content to somewhere in “Patterns” tab

@Blasted_pingin

I dunno if it’s possible but a unique tab for displaying parts and patterns would allow an easy drag and drop or copy/paste to a new project for example.

Parts and Patterns are conceptually 2 very different things in the Octatrack architecture. That’s why it’s displayed on different pages, I’m trying to keep close to the architecture.

That said, we can make all kinds of tricks in UI What kind of layout would you like to see / do you have in mind ? Feel free to draw a wireframe and share it. I’m open to anything

@Blasted_pingin

Maybe the status icon of unfound samples could display “sample not found” when we hover it?

Good idea > Added !

@Blasted_pingin

Maybe there could be an option ala Ableton to retrieve automatically the samples from a disk/folder?

Totally agree, that’s on my todo

I have actually started working on Audio pools UI to start adding sample management features:

It’s heavily inspired from Elektron Transfer app

Goal is to have automatic audio conversion, ability to add samples from Projects ’ Slot Lists and other goodies I listed time ago in 1st post of this thread

@Blasted_pingin

Couldn’t find any of these info at first. I had to check your screen captures. I would have expected to see these in the Tracks tab

Tracks details (what machines, what settings, etc) are all part of Parts, so it seems logical to me to have these info in the Parts tab

@Blasted_pingin

it takes 7 clicks if I wanna go to Parts tab (1 click), a Bank (2 clicks), a Track (2 clicks), a Part (1 click), one of the tabs (1 click) and a bit of scrolling to find the LFOs.

I kind of had in mind to replicate the Ocatrack’s “pages” UI but you are right that we could display much more info stright away, i’m gonna change layout in that effect !

@Blasted_pingin

I hope I don’t sound too harsh

Not at all, user feedback is key. I’m not investing in a software to please myself and my habits, I’m doing it for everyone else to find it useful. Let’s just go into that direction step by step

[imacactus]

New release v0.1.49 (changelog)

I substantially updated how patterns are displayed:

• Less info in steps cells
• More info in step details pane
• Reduced lost space in between elements to display more stuff at once
• Fixed a bunch of issues on stuff displayed for audio/midi tracks
• Increased visibility of step details content
• Fixed issue of icons not dislpaying the same way across linux/windows/osx
• Also added feature to hide all empty patterns (very useful idea from @Blasted_pingin)

[Blasted_pingin]

Good job!

I can now scan without issue.
One question: when I hover on a trig it shows P-Locks: 3. What does it mean?

[imacactus]

Thanks @Blasted_pingin !

@Blasted_pingin

One question: when I hover on a trig it shows P-Locks: 3. What does it mean?

It means that there are a total of 3 parameter locks on hovered step

[imacactus]

New version v0.1.54 (changelog)

Updated layout of overview page and added more info (midi channels, midi sync, metronome)

As new data were added, you will need to refresh project cache using auto-hidden button next to project name:

Also currently making a lot of progress on Audio pool page:

• Ability to import files and directories with automatic conversion
• Optional “Browse source” pane (to get dual pane UI similar to Transfer app)
• Bottom transfer pane which automatically toggles on/off when transfer are in progress
• Lots of keyboard shortcuts navigation
• Right click dropdown menu with actions

Next:

• Integration of Audio Pool pane in projects Sample List pages for ability to assign sample to slots etc
• Audio playback

Need testing:

• Are audio file converted successfully when imported to the audio pool ?

[ex]

This seems wicked man, I recently got the OT so really need to try this out soon! Thanks for the effort, let us know where to donate/purchase if we enjoy it!