Here is a summary of the important points of this thread:
–The AR is not a sampler. Period.
–Elektron is throwing in a nice bonus in being able to playback samples.
–“Sample Support” should not be taken to mean, “a Mini-Octatrack for each voice!”
–Yes, it would be nice to have a 4 band parametric EQ with shelving, baxdaxall, and bell-type curves, but, for now, just use the multi-mode filter.
–If and when one is able to purchase an AR, he should consider playing with it first, to see if the built-in functions are adequate
–Accept the AnalogRytm for what it is and if that isn’t enough, go for something else
This line of thought isn’t a good match for Elektron’s design philosophy. Bear in mind that each of their machines is designed to specialize in one area, while also being flexible enough to play on its own, which is why they all have parameter-lockable sequencing. So you can do a complete performance with just an Analog Four or a Monomachine (although you’ll end up making a lot of compromises to accommodate the synthesis limitations) or use individual machines as subsystems dedicated to their particular specialties.
This is really different from the approach of most companies where you have entry-level machines with limited features and then high end workstations that have more features, more polyphony, more front panel controls etc. Of course there is some variation in price and connectivity between the Elektron machines, but they’re quite different from (say) Akai’s MPC product line that went from uber-basic MPC500 up to the MPC-5000 with complete workstation features including a toaster for when you got hungry wanted to burn a CD.
Of course the limitations can be annoying, and it forces you to deviate from your ideal workflow. But the more options that you have available on every individual channel, the larger the number of things you have to juggle and keep track of in live performance, and I feel like Elektron’s design philosophy is to force the user into making these sorts of choices (eg accept the sound as it is, or copy the pattern to another channel if you need layers with quite independent behavior) so as to prevent losing the musical focus by offering endlessly flexible synth patching.
Let me give you a scenario here:
[…]
And also I now have extra samples on the machine taking up hard drive space instead of one kick that I could sculpt any way I like given the proper tools. Granted 1gb of space for one shot samples is more then enough but just sayin!!
I have a Nord Modular G2 which is about as elaborate as you can get in terms of sound shaping without going completely computer-based, because I too like to have total control over the sound. But sitting down to patch things on that quickly turns into a pure sound design session, whereas when I’m improvising I tend to pick a patch and restrict myself to tweaking only a few of the many available parameters.
Even on the Analog Four I work slower than on the Octatrack, because there are just a lot more possibilities available in a single voice and it’s easier to lose sight of the compositional goal, whereas on the OT there’s only 30 ‘dynamic’ parameters to adjust on each channel (vs. 120 or so per voice on the A4), it’s easier for me to keep a complete pattern in my head at once. I think with the AR they’ve deliberately shifted the balance of programmability and performance more towards the performance end. This won’t suit everyone but it will certainly suit me, to the extent that I sometimes wonder if I should keep the Analog Four or go for something with a little less depth but more knobbage. I don’t use the performance mode as much as I should because it requires extra advance planning and menu diving. On the OT I don’t really have to stop and think about what I’m doing and I get a similar feeling from the AR based on what I’ve seen.
[quote="“SB-SIX”"]
Again, you are jumping to conclusions, and it’s getting insulting, which is not very smart if you don’t know who you are talking to. There are lots of people making incredible rhytms with carton boxes, bottles, pots, pans and what not. Do you hear them whining about not having an EQ on their bottle or box?
If you stop thinking about frequency responses and just listen to what you are making, you might be surprised how easy it is to judge if a sample fits on top of the other or not. If it doesn’t fit, grab another sample. Easy. Remember that with every EQ you use, you potentially degrade the sound by introducing phasing issues. Just find something that fits in the first place. EQ is a last resort.
Exactly, now you are thinking in solutions rather than problems.[/quote]
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I mentioned that workaround in the beginning of the thread.
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I don’t know who i’m talking to and quite frankly I don’t really care. Its your initial comment which I was speaking to which was silly as is this new comment about telling me its just so “easy” to grab another sample. I have an excellent set of ears, thanks, and I’m also very technical minded (a very powerful combination|). This is irrelevant to my points though. I, and many others I’m sure, would rather EQ or filter and introduce phasing then sit there all day searching for the right sample. I am of the sound design mentality and not preset/sample surfer to find the perfect fit. This isn’t like tracking in a studio where you’d use mic placement techniques instead of using EQ(which I agree with). This is drum samples we are talking about and layering with another sound.
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please don’t use the “do you know who you are talking to” line again and continue to make statements that are just silly. Its not really lining up for someone who doesn’t know who you are.
*editted : unless you are like the moderator/owner on these forums or something, then I guess I picked the wrong person to argue with lol. But your comments are still silly. I understand where you are coming from but you sound as if that is the end all be all way to do things and that having more control should not be asked for. And you seem to like to offer me engineering tips not knowing who I am either which is kind of ironic. Tips are always welcome though!
Sure man. 
also freelance mastering engineer.
agreed and the params I am asking for is for LAYERING. Something that this unit as capable of doing according to elektron. I’m not asking for time stretching sample chopping, re-sampling etc. I’m just asking for controls for LAYERING. I know its real hard for some people in this thread to grasp. And again please refer to the diagram I posted earlier in the thread about where these features would come into play in the voice architecture. I am accepting it for what it is as I’ve pre-ordered it. Im also going to voice my suggestions for future updates because I think elektron is very capable of adding great features in the future. I bet the guy that first asked for the a4 to be a true poly was berated to hell and back as well.
Maybe I should have titled the thread a bit differently to be more optimistic about it all. sorry for that everyone. *Edited main post title to reflect this.
Cenk has been quoted as saying that such things as midi seq were omitted on the AR so as not to waste cpu and take “away processing power for the more exciting things that are lined up for it.”
So who knows what they have in mind.
I reckon the sample playback is more than a mere bonus add-on feature though, the specs describe it as ‘an ingenious sample engine’ - so a core part of the AR, and may be open to new features.
Would like to see how extensively the drum synths can be tweaked; the more features the better as I’d like to be able to push far beyond ‘conventional’ drum sound ranges. The LFOs might be a little lacking(?) but who knows yet.
I too like the idea of some independent eq/filter on the sample alone before combining it with the drum synth … however best to wait and see how it all plays out first. Possibly it isn’t technically possible given the signal path.
Not sure about layering if I understand it correctly; a single sample per track works for me, though being able to map samples vs pitch/velocity within a track would be great. I’m guessing a sample will be choked off by the next hit within a track?
There seems plenty of scope for more features that don’t encroach on existing elektron machines. It’ll be interesting to hear what people are asking for once they’ve had a few weeks use.
you know, elektron is the one that opened the can of worms, if you are going to say it can layer samples, it should do an excellent job of layering samples…that does not mean it has to be a sampler…and I’m with owensands in regards to voicing what we would like to see…even though technically we haven’t seen anything at all yet heheh
Again, you are jumping to conclusions, and it’s getting insulting, which is not very smart if you don’t know who you are talking to. There are lots of people making incredible rhytms with carton boxes, bottles, pots, pans and what not. Do you hear them whining about not having an EQ on their bottle or box?
If you stop thinking about frequency responses and just listen to what you are making, you might be surprised how easy it is to judge if a sample fits on top of the other or not. If it doesn’t fit, grab another sample. Easy. Remember that with every EQ you use, you potentially degrade the sound by introducing phasing issues. Just find something that fits in the first place. EQ is a last resort.
Exactly, now you are thinking in solutions rather than problems.[/quote]
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I mentioned that workaround in the beginning of the thread.
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I don’t know who i’m talking to and quite frankly I don’t really care. Its your initial comment which I was speaking to which was silly as is this new comment about telling me its just so “easy” to grab another sample. I have an excellent set of ears, thanks, and I’m also very technical minded (a very powerful combination|). This is irrelevant to my points though. I, and many others I’m sure, would rather EQ or filter and introduce phasing then sit there all day searching for the right sample. I am of the sound design mentality and not preset/sample surfer to find the perfect fit. This isn’t like tracking in a studio where you’d use mic placement techniques instead of using EQ(which I agree with). This is drum samples we are talking about and layering with another sound.
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please don’t use the “do you know who you are talking to” line again and continue to make statements that are just silly. Its not really lining up for someone who doesn’t know who you are.
*editted : unless you are like the moderator/owner on these forums or something, then I guess I picked the wrong person to argue with lol. But your comments are still silly. I understand where you are coming from but you sound as if that is the end all be all way to do things and that having more control should not be asked for. And you seem to like to offer me engineering tips not knowing who I am either which is kind of ironic. Tips are always welcome though!
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I seriously dont understand why you keep insulting me and also elektron for not thinking enough about the implementation., i haven’t made any insults towards you and i sure did not say any silly things. Not very mature to call everything silly which is basically another point of view is it? I’m not saying its the end all be all way at all, the only thing i tried is to manage expectations. You can’t expect features you ask to be implemented because you ask for them.
I’m also not denying your feature request. If they add an eq, cool. But from experiences in the past i can tell you that it’s probably not going to happen, whether you like it or not. Hardware is about limitations, and limitations lead to more creativity. Thats why i suggested to just pick up the device as it is or leave it. What do you think brings more joy, playing with it as is, or waiting for a feature to be implemented that might never come, constantly checking the site to see if your feature is being developed or not.
It’s good to see though that you’ve converted this thread to a more positive way of asking things.
@owensands : Mine is bigger, yours smaller… blah blah… going nowhere. Please move on. 
As a community we shouldn’t need moderators to behave. There is no good or wrong people to pick a fight with in here.
Have fun making music. Enjoy sharing (tracks, knowledge, technical and artistic POV, whatever).
I guess we are all here because we share a common passion, either Pro or Hobbyist, using Elektron gear. Help making this board a good place to be with people sharing common interest.
Cheers
Again, you are jumping to conclusions, and it’s getting insulting, which is not very smart if you don’t know who you are talking to. There are lots of people making incredible rhytms with carton boxes, bottles, pots, pans and what not. Do you hear them whining about not having an EQ on their bottle or box?
If you stop thinking about frequency responses and just listen to what you are making, you might be surprised how easy it is to judge if a sample fits on top of the other or not. If it doesn’t fit, grab another sample. Easy. Remember that with every EQ you use, you potentially degrade the sound by introducing phasing issues. Just find something that fits in the first place. EQ is a last resort.
Exactly, now you are thinking in solutions rather than problems.[/quote]
-
I mentioned that workaround in the beginning of the thread.
-
I don’t know who i’m talking to and quite frankly I don’t really care. Its your initial comment which I was speaking to which was silly as is this new comment about telling me its just so “easy” to grab another sample. I have an excellent set of ears, thanks, and I’m also very technical minded (a very powerful combination|). This is irrelevant to my points though. I, and many others I’m sure, would rather EQ or filter and introduce phasing then sit there all day searching for the right sample. I am of the sound design mentality and not preset/sample surfer to find the perfect fit. This isn’t like tracking in a studio where you’d use mic placement techniques instead of using EQ(which I agree with). This is drum samples we are talking about and layering with another sound.
-
please don’t use the “do you know who you are talking to” line again and continue to make statements that are just silly. Its not really lining up for someone who doesn’t know who you are.
*editted : unless you are like the moderator/owner on these forums or something, then I guess I picked the wrong person to argue with lol. But your comments are still silly. I understand where you are coming from but you sound as if that is the end all be all way to do things and that having more control should not be asked for. And you seem to like to offer me engineering tips not knowing who I am either which is kind of ironic. Tips are always welcome though!
[/quote]
I seriously dont understand why you keep insulting me and also elektron for not thinking enough about the implementation., i haven’t made any insults towards you and i sure did not say any silly things. Not very mature to call everything silly which is basically another point of view is it? I’m not saying its the end all be all way at all, the only thing i tried is to manage expectations. You can’t expect features you ask to be implemented because you ask for them.
I’m also not denying your feature request. If they add an eq, cool. But from experiences in the past i can tell you that it’s probably not going to happen, whether you like it or not. Hardware is about limitations, and limitations lead to more creativity. Thats why i suggested to just pick up the device as it is or leave it. What do you think brings more joy, playing with it as is, or waiting for a feature to be implemented that might never come, constantly checking the site to see if your feature is being developed or not.
It’s good to see though that you’ve converted this thread to a more positive way of asking things.
[/quote]
I felt like you did insult me. You insinuated that I didn’t know what I was doing and I shouldn’t need the things I ask for and that I was whining about tools I don’t need because people are making great stuff with far less(irrelevant). You came off as having more knowledge of how to do things when you just sounded like you were spouting nonsense throwing around end all be all lines like “eq is a last resort”. Why do we need a multimode filter then? Who should need that?! no no! Another guy chiming in saying where are the video outs also sarcastically attacking my views like an idiot. So you’re damn right i’m gonna come back at you.
I don’t care if it ever gets implemented because I can certainly make due without it but It never hurts to ask for something. And I can also have an opinion of whether I think the design for that section of the engine is a good one. I don’t right now. But please understand I am still very excited to own and play with this AR. And if it is technically possibly I will bet you any amount of money they will add at the very least a high pass filter in the future.
Sorry to say but I don’t see sample playback as a bonus, it’s a essential part of the drum voice! So for layering a separate ADSR and EQ for sample playback is very important!
So put this on top of the wishlist!
And yes I do have a OT for sampling and to go much deeper with samples I have a Kyma system…
Looks like the sample page at NAMM was completely used up already. They could add a second page I suppose. Or hey maybe it’s already there since no one actually has one yet! 
we know almost nothing about the ar.
already thinking of future updates is hilarious
i would like it to make me espresso and vacuum.
Take it easy everybody, less personal comments/attacks please
Well some people are quite naive when it comes to suggestions for very useful possibilities!
what’s the point in moaning until anybody has actualy used it… Nobody knows what state the current OS is in. What if its already possible? Maybe I’m missing some vital info tho. Let’s just wait and see?
@SB-SIX Off topic but the song you have attached to your name is great. Pretty much exactly what I like listening to. Not the sounds of a “green” producer. Just excited to get my hands on this. I think it will initially be substantially whelming w/o the features they may/may not add in the future
Anyone know can it play samples backwards like the OT?
You can reverse the start and end loop points (start clockwise and end counter) which should have a similar effect but won’t actually reverse the audio file.
Not sure about actualy reversing audio on board but I doubt it… Rytms all about uploading what sample you need to compliment the analogue.
Thanks adrianskye, appreciated!