Pondering trading OT for MnM - talk me out or into it

Elektron Gear Octatrack
1

have had some real trouble making friends with the octatrack. and i’m considering trading it for MnM as the post title says.

effects and crossfader
while i’ll miss the crossfader and scene workflow - technique, i won’t miss it too horribly as

  1. i don’t much care for most of the OT’s effects.
  2. even if i keep the OT i’m strongly considering not running my elektron boxes into it.

sampling
i really wish this worked for me. but_i_just_can’t_make_it_happen. plus i find working with the samples tedious in the little window w/ the nested menus. yes i’m spoiled coming from able ton’s sampler and simpler.

plus the AR meets a portion of my sample needs and tricks. single cycle…

questions
has anyone moved from the OT to the MnM and regretted it?
as an effect sequencer, how do the 2 compare?

oddly i find that as i use the AR (and love it!) i miss using my MD and all it’s digital sizzle-ness.

2

hi there … got all of them elektron boxes, now sold the AR … sampling could be done with the OT

MD fuckery fun is imho not as present in the AR

MM in the “right” hands is a beeeeaaaast !

OT fx and fuckery is awesome …

so I wouldnt change it immediatly i would get a second hand one and decide later if you want to get rid of the OT

or ask around if there is someone in your area with MM who would allow you to play around with it …

also keep in mind there are 2 mm, with and without the +drive

btw i suck at the mm, but i ve seen a friend use her, and this thing is the bomb…harder to master though

3

For me OT is for life…maybe one day better having two

4

I find the octatrack is weirdo… sometimes i love it, sometimes i hate it.
Anyway messed with it last night and the MD/MnM. Not really using the Octa as a creation tool but as mess stuff up and re-arrange tool it excels.
Starting from scratch on the OT I find quite hard work but just mashing up stuff from other machines its great.
I want to find a workflow that makes the best use of it and my modular but haven’t got there yet.
Back on topic:
The Monomachine is an absolute beast, it really rewards you for sticking with it and going deep, the most so of any Elektron device, I’ve used. I think it is my fave all in all and I remember thinking nothing would topple the MDUW but to be honest I think I am going off her.

5

I completely agree with you and the others about the deepness of MnM…and its full beauty…it can engage you in outer-of-this-world sounds.

If you ask me OT or MM ?
I answer OT…but just because is so much fun.
Of course there are moments when I hate it…because of some buggy behaviors.

But the rest is a huge moment of pleasure

6

I owned the MachineDrum and MonoMachine and now have a couple of Octatracks.

The core of Elektron gear is the p-lock concept and their sequencers.

For me, the p-locks make a ton of sense for a drum machine. Punch in a run of hi-hats, then p-lock volumes and pitches for variation, add a slight LFO and you now have a track with some natural movement to it.

P-Locks also make a lot of sense for samples - lock the start, length, different sample, etc.

For a synthesizer, I found p-locks tedious. I ended up not using them much on the MnM. I also found that over time, I grew to dislike the sound of the MnM, no matter what machine I had loaded. Elektron envelopes, LFOs synced to the BPM, changes per step (yes I know you can slide params for smooth changes, but that’s more p-locking), all the things that are great for a rhythmic device or a sampler didn’t work for me on a synthesizer. Maybe I’m just old and used to more traitional ‘modulation over time’ using envelopes, LFOs, ramps, other oscillators, and performance controls like wheels and ribbons and such, but for me, the MnM never felt fun or engaging. It was never the first box I reached for when I wanted to create a sound.

For me, I have better sequencers and effects than what comes with any of the Elektron boxes, so the quality of those things was never a deciding factor. It was always about the sound engine. The OT works and sounds the way I always thought samplers should sound and work. It just took me a while to find it (been through the Emu Emax and E-III, MPCs, Fairlight, Akai S series, and random other things).

With all that said - these boxes are deeply personal choices. I know what works for me, but only after buying it and trying it out extensively in my setup. Sure, reading and asking opinions helped, but in the end the only way I know if something is a keeper is to get it and try it out for a while.

The advice of buying a MnM used is a good one.

7

@danlukas - I’ve owned & loved both instruments for some time now and I’d be happy to add a bit more food for thought, but first let me ask:

Beyond sequencing effects, do you have a vision of what you want the MnM to do? “Fill these particular gaps in my setup”, “just be fun for a change”, etc. :wink:

…I ask (in part) because the OT and MnM seem to be the two Elektrons that have inspired the most extreme reactions over the years: Many people who try one or the other can’t get enough, others bang their heads against the wall.

8

I can’t live without the octatrack. That said. The mono is pretty baller too. My vote is to get both.

9

I love the Monomachine but I need to process the sound a lot, that’s where the Octatrack comes in. The OT’s effects aren’t great and the sampling isn’t the most straight forward but using effects chains with neighbor tracks and resampling a bunch of times can take me anywhere I want as far as I’m concerned, especially adding external effects via the cue outs. You can probably get quicker results using other methods but coming from the SP404 where you can’t record without stopping the playback of everything, the OT is like a dream machine.

The Monomachine is my favorite synth ever though. It’s a lot more immediate than the OT, even if it takes some work getting the sound where you want it. You can get the foundation of a track down in no time. I look at the Mono like I do the Machinedrum, in that they can sound pretty polished on their own but really excel as raw sound sources to be processed further. The OT is that processing step for me. I wouldn’t want to be without either but would also be glad to use either one. Using them together is the best option though; I’d save and looked for a used Mono and if you still don’t care for the OT get rid of it.

10

two completely different machines (really? :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: )
it’s a difficult choice, i would say both, but if you have to choose, you should do it considering other machines you have.
if you have something that could get you in MM sound territory, then i would keep the OT and sample endlessly :smiley: otherwise, as trabant suggests: get yourself a second hand MM and see what you think of it.
also, if you fancy, you could try this :slight_smile: which is not fully working but it would give you the chance of trying the MM out without having to look for the real thing

11

with sampling, and i’m not having a go, but have you tried not working with samples like that? :slight_smile:

i really like the octatrack for sampling and i wouldn’t like it if i worked with it much like that, spending a lot of time in the editor. imo it’s all about the live recording and resampling, it takes practice, more than with the md, but it’s definitely something that i think is fun if you feel like putting in the time to get it down, which might not be worth it depending on how you make tracks.

if you haven’t, try using empty samples or just recording a dummy file, setting up rough slices and use scenes, the cross fader, the amp and filter envelopes to shape your sounds, then use track recorders to fill it live. it does mean you might have to record direct audio though more often and maybe that’s just not your thing. i still like the md for sampling a lot too. i totally find it faster better laid out for a lot of things. i like to use the ot to grab loops from md or elsewhere and then reshuffle them so they aren’t loops on the fly. :slight_smile: it means instead of programing tons patterns on one machine i can program i can program 1 and then use the octatrack for variations.

imo the octatrack is more like the effects rack chain list in ableton live, which imo is really tedious to setup. the other thing that i find tedious in live is the process of bouncing/freezing/recording into another track and actually using it live and again that’s something i like the octatrack for. but yeah for straight sampler/simpler :wink: kinda work the octatrack isn’t my go to. if you like live i’d try using it as a like a big sound module and run it into the octatrack . use the midi to switch routings of what’s going into the octratrack on the fly, trigger clips, play instruments. i’ve never really been able to get into making tracks in live itself much tho.

for effects, if i tried to use the ot and mnm the same i don’t think it would be fun. the kinda morphs you can get with the crossfader on the octatrack i would hate trying to program on the monomachine, i think. imo the advantage to all those synth engines is that they are very flexible and if i wasn’t using them much i don’t think it would be super enjoyable. i do like the monomachine’s reverb, but i don’t find you can get that many flavors from it and i do run it through others on top of that pretty often.

in terms of external processing i do think the monomachine works well as a “vca” or gate especially with the different types track trigs. i find the compressor easier to dial in. parallel processing i like doing a lot. you can’t get as complex in the routing, but it’s easier to switch it up, i think. and if you use the 6 outs it opens up some more possibilities. being able to use note pitch to change parameters even with effects tracks is fin with the arp and transpose functions to get some interesting stuff going on.

i also like using the midi on the octatrack to change settings on the monomachine. with parts and muting midi tracks on the octatrack you can get lots of cool changes and variety on the monomachine. if you were using something else as your main midi sequencer that could work just as well too though. i use the mpc or max on the computer as well for midi. if i want to get well into slicing or really involved detailed editing over a long time i still prefer the mpc and it’s often what i use to record the midi and audio from the octatrack. :wink:

12

Vastly different machines, obviously.

If you like to use samples/loops then I can see the OT being amazing, but for those of us who want to create sounds from scratch, something like the MNM has a lot more appeal.

I’m somewhat interested in the OT, but OS bugs, hardware problems (SD card pins breaking), along with the fear that using an OT would cause ‘Loopism’ in my music (which is what I’m trying to get away from) have kept me from pulling the trigger on an OT. But I can certainly see how it could be a huge asset to any studio.

MNM is my favorite. Sometimes very frustrating, but usually a hotbox of great fun. Poeple who love the MNM really love the MNM!

I agree though, having both would be best, if you can afford it.

13

I do love my Monomachine, but…

I’ve had the Mono for about a year and a half, the OT just shy of two months. I’ve really dug into the Mono and learned it well, which made the OT that much easier to learn. I think the things I’ve liked most about the MNM are in the sequencer, and the OT takes the majority of what is good there and builds upon it greatly. There are a few things you can do with the Mono’s midi sequencer, like p-lock program change, that you can’t do with the OT that I miss.

The sound engine is where I waffle. Sometimes it blows me away, sometimes it leaves me feeling cold. The digitalness really comes through a lot, and I’ve increasingly been using it more as a complementary dish to the main course. I’ve been having crazy thoughts since getting my OT of trading the Mono for an A4 and selling my MDUW to start a modular (I blame Nedavine :wink: ), but am really on the fence because I do like the sound of the machine for some things and can program it without too much thought now. I think if you like the sound, you should follow the advice of getting a second hand one and trying it out, but I’d hold on to the OT for the moment and maybe see if you can’t come to grips with some of the workflow related issues there, as the Mono is deep in its own right and you may be just as frustrated with it.

14

here is where i see the overlap between the ot and mm and ultimately the starting point for my particular dilemma.

effects
effects sequencing
single cycle wave form sampling

-

effects
i don’t like most of the ot effects. and i can’t put delay and reverb on the same track. yes, i know i can use neighbor tracks.

effects sequencing
i do enjoy working w/ the crossfader but my interest has very little to do with effect transitions. i more prefer the adjustments to the the other tabs (lfo, playback, etc).

single cycle wave forms and sampling
if the sampling live was working for me w/ the octatrack i probably wouldn’t be in this situation, but_
its_just_not_intuitive
and it_never_works_quite_right for me.

see this thread.

the samples i’m loading on the card and getting the most traction/use out of are single cycle OR LONG samples. which feels like a waste.

i want to love the octatrack but it vexes me. i’m going to dig into the sampling thing more and see if i can square it away.

15

I’m not thrilled with a lot of the FX in the OT, or any of the Elektrons I own honestly…passable, but not great. My solution is to get some external FX. I quite like using P-locks and LFOs to control effects over midi.
I saw your thread about having trouble with losing samples. Just a quick thought, after you place recorder trigs do you change the pattern length to 64? If you place a recorder trig on trig 1, then change pattern length a recorder trig (or play, for that matter) will be placed on the first trig of every bar.
Also, maybe you are rearming the trig at some point? Try using a one shot to capture your sample, but remove it after recording and see if you get the same behavior. Or just get in the habit of saving samples after you get something you like.

16

You seem to have a few points of pain that you’re trying to solve:

  • sampling effectively with the OT
  • effects/effects sequencing
  • the value of using single cycle waveforms

I don’t own an OT so I can’t comment on how difficult or easy it is, but if not being able to live sample with the OT is the only reason you want to get rid of it, then I’d say just buckle down and learn it backwards and forwards until you can do it with little effort. But it also sounds like you don’t really use samples that much (i.e. beat loops, vocals, melodies, etc), so maybe you don’t need a sample based machine at all.

You don’t really have a clear problem or need, but it is clear that you aren’t jelling with the OT that well, and aren’t a sample hound. If you came on here and said “I really want to do complex synthesis” or “I want something glitchy and edgy sounding” I would recommend the MNM. But that isn’t the case, so I have a third idea for you…

….an MDUW+

You can sample with it (more straight forward than the OT), and you can do some great synthesis with it (way beyond short percussion sounds), AND it is killer with MIDI control. Plus, you get 16 tracks, which is way more than any of the other machines has. The MD would give you the ability to have it all, and it’s the easiest of the boxes to use. Of course, I’m assuming you don’t already have the MDUW+.

17

Keep OT, find second hand MnM, is a sage advice :wink:

18

I did this…never a regret!
Im with you about effects…but I find MnM’s fx usefulness more bad than OT…yeah I don’t like MnM fxs so much

19

The Dark Reverb on the OT is ok, and I’ve heard a lot of good things about the reverb on the A4, but for the most part I don’t think effects are a strong point for Elektron.

20

this is my issue. i’m not jelling. it’s not speaking to me. i usually regret gear sells. i might just shelf it for now.

have one. i have actually been playing with it all morning. great advice.