Playing live with only OT - Questions

Elektron Gear Octatrack
1

Hello Everyone - I’ve had the octatrack for a week or so now and I’m still trying to wrap my head around even a fraction of what it can do…but as I’ve been learning I’ve run into a few issues that I can’t find answers to in the manual or online (just to preface I’m coming from Ableton Live / MPC 2000 and hoping to use the Octatrack as a replacement for these during live performances)

  1. Do most of you who are working in this way cut your original songs into pieces of a designated length in Live and then map each sample to a trig on the OT, or do you somehow slice them directly in the OT and then trigger the slices at the start of each pattern?

  2. Anytime I try to make a slice grid (for the above purpose or just oneshot samples) the slices the OT makes aren’t at the beginning of each sample, or on beat…is there a way to adjust the grid or have the slices lock to the beginning of each sample?

  3. Is there a way to trigger one shot samples manually over a backing track by hitting the trig button but have it play in time with a backing track? For example, a backing track is playing and I want to tap a trig key for a snare a few times but have it quantize to the backing track, then move to the next trig key and play a conga sample also quantized to the backing track. I thought maybe this could be accomplished using the slots view, which seems feasible, but haven’t figured out the quantization part yet. (hoping for something similar to the note repeat function on the MPC)

  4. I started using different pattern lengths in order to accomodate the stems I exported from Ableton, but somehow in this process I noticed that the Scale Setup screen changed, and now underneath the 64/64 it lists master tempo: 0296…Oddly I can’t find a mention of this in the manual but it seems to make everything I’ve already done play in a strange way.

  5. For those of you using the OT live - what is the best way to play a live set with it on any given night, changing tons of parameters on stage, and then have it be ready to go in its original state the next night?

  6. Is it worth using the arranger in a live environment or just manually switching each pattern by hand? What have you found works best for you? The arranger feels too planned and rigid to me so far, but triggering each pattern by hand also requires a lot of monitoring of the progress of the backing tracks.

Thanks in advance for the help : )

2

I’m not a super pro but I’ve been learning the OT for a couple months now. I’ll answer the points I can.

If you haven’t read Merlin’s PDF yet you should do so:

http://goo.gl/zBz5F4

Some of what you’re asking, specifically for question 5, you’ll want to read up on saving/reloading kits and parts.

  1. The manual states:

• CREATE SLICE GRID will create a number of slices spread out between the start and end points set in the TRIM menu. The slice grid can consist of 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 48 or 64 slices. After creating the slice grid a prompt will appear asking “ALIGN MARKERS TO ZERO-CROSSES?”. If [ENTER/YES] is pressed the slices in the grid will be adjusted to the nearest zero amplitude crossings. If [EXIT/NO] is pressed the slices will be spread out evenly and all slices will have the exact same length.

You are probably hitting Enter/YES which means the slices won’t be evenly spaced. Instead the OT will try to move the slices to the closet point where a sound starts (the silences in between sounds).

  1. Not exactly sure what you’re asking here. Sounds like you’d be better off setting up muted tracks with those one shots and simply unmute them or get good at hitting them manually. I’ll be interested if someone else gives a better response.

  2. I believe you can reload a previously-saved project to get back entirely to your last saved state. I’ve started going with the one-project per song model myself for now.

  3. With electronic music I think the preplanning isn’t so bad. The live-musicality comes from using scenes, the delay freeze, muting tracks, changing effects. Live jams are fun but usually tend to be a bit one dimensional unless you are really talented at the machine.

Having another external instrument that you could feed into the OT and live sample using the pickup machines would also keep your performance from feeling too much like a DJ and more like a musician.

I hope some more experienced answers come your way as it will be interesting to me as well.

3

The arranger is an awesome tool to play live.

Don´t think on it as the Ableton Live arranger where you basically use it to define a structure.

The OT arranger is more like “scenes” on ableton Live, you can create loops, jumps, offsets, mutes, etc.

You can create rows to set a suggested pattern order but then you can choose when to jump to a particular row.

Also you can leave and back from/to the arranger seamlessly.

You can define which OT Scenes will be selected for a particular row.

You can use REM rows to have labels so you´ll know what is what, useful if you need to learn a lot of patterns, relations, sequences etc.

The offset can be very useful.

You can use the Offset parameter to convert 1 pattern into several virtual patterns, this is useful specially if you use loops.

Lets say you have 2 samples of 4 bars each that represents part A and B for a song.

You can use a single pattern to hold both of them on a single track and then use the arranger to choose which one will play and when.

The key is make an 8 bar pattern then put sample A on the first half and sample B on the second. Then on the arranger setting an offset of 0 for that row/pattern will play A, and an offset of 64 will play B.

The key for this is to use per track scale and set for the track that will play A and B a Pattern Scale of 64/64 1/2

This will make that track twice it size but you won´t get extra steps, there always will be 64 steps max, so to achieve that, the steps for that track will run at half the speed. That means you loose resolution but that doesn’t matter for this track. This track only needs a single trigger on the very beginning to trigger a sample.

So render A and B to a single Wave, so bar 1-4 is A and 5-8 is B, then create on the OT a 2 slices sample.

Place a trigger on step 1 playing slice 1, and 1 trigger on step 33 playing slice 2. Because it speed is the half, Step 33 correspond to step 65 at normal speed.

If you press play now you will see that for that track the step will reach step 32 and then will back to the beginning (I asume you have master length to 64).

Now place that pattern on the arranger as a row with a length of 64 (and 64 repetitions to keep it playing)

Pressing play now will play A

Now in the arranger duplicate that row but now set an offset of 64

If you press play now being on that row, all tracks will play starting from step 65. The other tracks will play step 1 because there is no step 65, but for the track that holds A and B there is Step 65, in matter of fact it is the step “33” the one that holds B. So You will listen to B variation of this loop

Having this two rows on the arranger allows you yo jump from one to another whenever you want, so this way the arranger works as a helper and not as a structure ruler.

Note that you can set a Scale of 1/8, this mean you can hold 8 sample variations per pattern, or even more using other tricks, like offseting to a part that hasn’t any trigger for that track will keep playing the last triggered slice.

Using this technique you can have full backing sons divided in “moments” and use the arranger to play them automatically or manually.

Hope you get some ideas from here, there are many things to write and very short time, sorry.

5

Well, the offset technic wasn’t possible till 1.25D, it has a bug that affected patterns with “per track” scale mode.
I read some guys talking about that bug some days ago, I´m still waiting to know their OS version.

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Great explanation, gbravetti!

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Another outstanding use of the Arranger is when launching patterns on the Analog Four by sending MIDI notes from the Octatrack.

Using different transpose values for that MIDI track allows to have any pattern launched on the Analog Four. And this using a single pattern on the Octatrack.

8

If you have a video about your arranger trick, it would be better !
My english is not as better as I can understand very well all what youre are saying …
thnaks !

9

Ok, so mind basically blown. Can’t wait to get home from work to dink around with this concept. Thanks gbravetti

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you can choose to launch samples indipendedly. my formula goes as such. set up your static machine samples loops I max out with 128 sample loops. As I insert each loop I go to the sample edit page and make sure the loop is behaving the way I like. The way you access the sample edit page is by pressing track 1 and the bank edit button. once the menu opens select the attr option. In that page you can control how your loop will play. you have your loops quantized! just like ableton live! if you load your loops and they sound too slow(sometimes the OT misreads the loop length you fix in this menue also. you’ll see loop length sometimes a 2 bar loop would be read as 4 bars. you’ll simple change it back to 2 bar and your ready to rock.

Now I set up track one with 128 individual loops in static machine. press function +down arrow key and select the slot option. Now you can launch any of the loops with the triggers on the bottom row.

With flex machine you can do the same thing. key thing here is you can have any sample quantized. 256 samples be it loop one shots or complete backing tracks at your finger tips ready to launch very simular to ableton live. works great. make sure you save your project in the beginning so when you do your live set reinstall your root project to get back to square one.

hope that make sense lol

11

Damn. Knowledge dropped!

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out.

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Ill try to record a video next week

1 Like
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[quote=“” gbravetti""]

[quote=“dekalboy”]If you have a video about your arranger trick, it would be better !
My english is not as better as I can understand very well all what youre are saying …
thnaks !
[/quote]

Ill try to record a video next week
[/quote]
awesome writeup gbravetti – i think a video would help all the visual learners out here, so thanks in advance if you find time to make one :+1:

14

gbravetti’s explanation is perfect.

But can you speak about the context for using this setup. Because all you said can be done with 2 patterns in pattern mode? Of course you cannot do fast jumping cutups but that wasn’t the point right?

15

Thanks for the advice everyone - this is all interesting!

Geneoart - can you explain this last part in more detail? I don’t understand how this is different than static machines. how exactly are they ready to launch?

With flex machine you can do the same thing. key thing here is you can have any sample quantized. 256 samples be it loop one shots or complete backing tracks at your finger tips ready to launch very simular to ableton live. works great. make sure you save your project in the beginning so when you do your live set reinstall your root project to get back to square one.

Also - is there another way to link patterns (which is permanent) without using the arranger? sort of like a ‘follow action’ in Ableton, where after one patterns is done playing it moves onto the next?

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I made an example with a sample made of two parts. That´s pretty easy to do with two patterns as you said.

Now think on a song divided in several parts, let say an 8 bar part for the intro, 16 bars for the A part, a break of 8 bars, then 32 bars for B part, etc etc. With the technique I described you can put all those parts in a single pattern and use the arranger to play them thanks to the offset parameter.

8T8T8T8T did mention on his first post the possibility on working cutting his original songs, then set the “slices” as triggers on the OT. That´s why I suggested the offset technique, I think is the most conservative and unattended way, specially if you have many song with several parts, a limited amount of patterns and wanna save some time in rehearsals. :slight_smile:

17

If you want to cut your original songs as you said on your first post, your best choice is the arranger and the offset technique. You can play them manually also but you will need to do a lot of rehearsal and memorise many things. I won’t go on that direction. The best if you need to start with a lot of song, is to have an script you can break when you feel comfortable and you can base on when you feel lost, and that´s the arranger.
You can chain patterns, is pretty easy, but you have to make it live, there is no way than the arranger if you want to save those “links”
The closest to “follow actions” is the arranger, if you need “follow actions” with rules, probabilities, etc. you will have to build some app or construct some hardware. :slight_smile:

18

Great topic. I will be trying the arranger. Thanks for that awesome explanation gbravetti.

I’ve been using multiple patterns to jump to different parts of a song. So I end up using an entire bank for one song.

19

If you have more content than the full song and want to get the most of the pattern the best procedure is:

Set Scale Mode to Per track
Set the track that will play the song pattern scale to 1/8

Place your desired slices (it could be any) on steps 1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49.
Left the step 57 free ← this is very important

Now in the arranger to play the first part of your song you will use two rows.

row 1) offset 0 - no repetitions. This will play the slice on step 1 (it will play for 4 bars or 64 steps)

row 2) offset 448 -repetitions =R*. This won´t play anything, it is actually a space holder. You need it to let the first part of your song to play for its full length.

Now about the repetitions.
R* is equal to the amount of bars for that part of the song divided by 4, minus 1.

Why? because pattern´s length is equal to 4 bars and the row 1 just played the first 4 bars. That´s why we subtract 1.

Practical example.
Part A song has 16 bars and starts in slice 1. (Part A could use several slices that doesn’t matter.)
So to play full part A you need

Row 1 - Offset 0, Reps 0
Row 2 - Offset 448, Reps 3 (16/4-1)

Done

Last tip: You just need one place holder pero song, so if you have a song that needs more than 7 “parts” you can use two patterns and on the second pattern you don´t need to set a space for place holder, use the same placeholder for both patterns.
Good luck testing!

20

Another tip.

If you use Ableton or any Daw to process your sample, change time signature sub division to represent slices on your song.

4/1 works pretty good for regular songs.

Then you have to make it last to 32 48 or 64 “slices”. for that you need to add silence at the end of the song at the time you render it to a new wav.

Now you have a wav that you know for sure it can be divided in 32 48 or 64 slices. Next stop is to use the Create Slice Function to get those perfect splits.

DON’T USE 0 CROSSING OPTION!

Now you have in your computer a reference of the slice number and it´s correspondent audio, this visual and audible reference makes a lot easier to rebuild your song on the Octatrack.

You will use a bit of extra memory card on those silences but the time and precision earn makes it worth :slight_smile:

21

I will try to make a video next week I promise :slight_smile: