Pick up hick up

Elektron Gear Octatrack
1

…asked this already in my in a hurry thread…

and now, that the second pickup machine also tells me "overdub aborted"out of the blue, and is just not doing anymore what it did for the last few hours…did’nt change anything…

happened to me two days ago with another pickup machine…

hit AB to start recording…recording for 64 steps…loop starts…64 steps…overdubbing is possible straight away until i hit CD once…overdubbing is off…loops remains the same…still running…if i hit another time CD…loop stops…hit CD again …loop starts again…fine…
hit AB if loop is stopped…recorder is cleared and ready to go again…i hit AB and i start from scratch…recording 64 steps again…cool…

but for no reason suddenly i got a dealbreaker here and during recording i see the step lenght changing back an for…and in playback i end up with some step salad…

if i hit CD i get this pop up letting me know…overdub aborted…

buffer full?

ok…clearing all recodings…problem remains the same…step salad during recording…step salad during loop play…
on the first pick up machine it’s the same but even worse…since it does’nt work anymore, which means here…recording the amount of expected steps is still fine, but once it starts looping it’s frozen optical and acoustic wise on step 1/2/1/2/1/2…

even if i change the track options and switch to another kind of machine and go back to pick up, i end up there again…

ok…pick up machines are pretty fresh…is this bug talk?..or am i just too numb again?

did the pickup machine ever let you guys down this way…?

2

I, for one, find pickup machines an absolute joke on the OT.
I know some people swear by them, and I’m sure they’ll show up in this thread.
However, I cannot understand how they have been implemented. The simple fact that there is no way to undo your layers makes them completely unuseable for my workflow. They also seem quite buggy, from other user’s experiences.
I find it a lot more logical to record on different tracks, and resample when you’re happy with your layers. It’s the same idea, you can do it all via footswitches, and it allows for a lot more fun when your captured layers are available individually. Just my way of seeing them though, I’m sure people do cool stuff with them. Keep trying if you really want to use them, but I would recommend you also look at alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, with a LOT more flexibility during the process.
Cheers !

3

Pickup Machines will drop out of overdub mode any time the pitch information is changed or when the OT is being clocked externally. So, moving the Pitch knob on the PU screen, changing tempo, or modulating pitch via LFO (either direct or from MIDI) will abort overdub.

The master Pickup machine sets the OT BPM basd on the loop length. So if you stop recording early (by pressing CD) I think it recalculated the BPM and that made the overdub abort after that. Slave pickup machines follow the master length.

If you go into the Record menus (Function+AB) check the RLEN and see if it is changed. That might be a cause of the short looping.

Pages 55 to 59 of the 1.25 manual have the details of pickup machines. It’s good to re-read those sections after you have been playing with them for a while. Sometimes the same words have new meaning after hands-on experiences.

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4

…oh, i hate this damned pick up machines…

but no way around it for me…need all track ressources available AND need to overdub loops…
today everything was different again…in the same project…!..mo edits…!

first of all…pickup m on track 3 worked fine again, as if nothing ever happened, after switching on today…i switched off a few times the days before, which made no difference…
but today it did !?

thanks for response on pitch and so on…but i did’nt touch that damned pitch option…only directions…by the way…

so today, i got different results…the in ab signal of my mic was not really loud anymore when singin live through it…BUT the catched loops where totally distiorted and much much louder…
but only once…after one reptition, the recorded signal almost dispapeard…

no, the input level is the same as it was yesterday…so is the mic gain…
and no, i did’nt touch the gain value of the pickup machine parameters…

what’s going on here?
now we’re talking bugs for sure…
these pick up machines seem absolutely useless to me by now…

but i really got to get them, going…

and is there any chance to get rid of this sync master tempo to firs loop lenght?
nice feature but i don’t need it at all for this concept and if fucks up my whole run pretty easily…so please tell me how to shot this off…

and is there a way to work with one pick up machine as a real looper…where i can decide
on my own where and when i overdub…

this automatic overdub mode after one cycle with no chance to return and no chance to stop dubbing and start dubbing again and no chance to get back to the first loop and that
this damend thing is not starting in automatic sync again, once it’s stopped…

is nothing but a joke, indeed?

one pick up machine must be capable of beeing a normal standard looper, as every poor guitar pedal does these days…otherwise these pick up machines are really completely senseless…can’t believe it…

and all the other recording options don’t work for me…i need a master track…and i need at least two static, three flex and one through machine…at all times…

so, holy shit, how do i get these stupid pickup machine work solid and in a way i can really use and trust it in front of a crowded house…???

right now, this is not the case…not even near…
h e l p…!

5

I had this happen yesterday, not using pickups, just recording a synth.
Bug.,.

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6

…hmmmm.

so if i’m on os 1.25B, that b means, i paid more than thousand bucks to end up as a beta tester…!?

sorry…but that is inacceptable…i got a new showconcept to come…premiere is on the 7th of november now…
it’s gonna be a full house, full of high expectations…
and if i don’t get the feeling of stablemess and total recalls with no blink of a doubt, i just can’t do this with the octatrack…

i’m not the freaky guy who could take it as it comes…we’re talking expensive tickets on pre sale here and a show with hundreds of light and action cues on the spot…

i invested in this pro gear and expect it to be pro gear!
i did’nt buy it in first place, because of too many buttons to press to just make this sampler sample somethin…
i changed my mind because of these pick up machines…
i have two complete cased and ready to go pro live rigs catching dust in the studio…i only bought the ot for one reason…
getting rid of all these components and focus on one interface that gives me all options i need…
and the octatrack is promissing so…

but…

evrytime i switch this machine on, things end up different again…
for now, i know i don’t have this box at it’s balls yet, but i’ already lost this feeling of beeing able to trust it blind…
which is essential for me in this case…
i can’t start to wonder on stage…no way!

so what’s the point here?
and where are the guys here, telling me there’ll be some update very very soon to come that gets rid of this anoying B, saying 1.26 rock solid…

all these new elektron machines are pretty cool…
but if the older ones are not solid enough yet, to hit a professional stage, we got a serious problem here…

i can’t beta test during a show…simple as that…
so do i need to get back to some other os version or what else could i do, if i don’t want to sell this thing again…?

7

…ok, just a little update…

back in the studio…turned the ot on…dropped some vocal lines into this pickup machine and guess what…todays gain staging is FINE again???
what you do is what you get…

i need to repeat myself…made no changes, nowhere in the chain and nowhere on the ot…

so it’s more a gambling sampler than a PERFORMANCE SAMPLER…
surprise surprise…

please elektron…get this straight as fast as you can…

one pick up machine must be enough to perform looping action…solid!!!
this sync master tempo to first loop option needs to be able to shot off…
and once i did so, the loop is sync fixed to grid no mater what…
over dubs on and off must be able at any time…ON ONE pick up MACHINE…!!!

get your head around this…

enough updates for the new fancy products by now…
the ot needs some attention again!!!
because THAT’S the machine you called performance sampler!!!
and if we’re talking sampler and performance in one breath here, it must be clear, this machine really needs to come to the point on stages…no space for nutty nerdy professor attitude here…so do your homework, please…

and edit…for soem reason, the spatializer seems to be default setting on pickups in the fx section…
just wanted to change that to the dark reverb…now i got the loop level boosting again…
you piece of buggy shit…

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8

In my opinion, if you want to mainly use pickup machines for a live show in the way you’re describing, I would find a different approach.

This is based on having played with the PU machines since they were introduced and also from reading comments of other folks who have used them.

Most folks end up restructing their approach to use Flex machines instead.

With that being said, here’s a few random bits of info that might help:

somewhere in the 7 pages of http://www.elektronauts.com/t/f-this-box-pu-machines-trigs-neighbor-lfos-arhhh/7237 is a way to use a flex machine and then have the Pickup machine sample from that to preserve the tempo. Yes, you burn an additional track to do it, but it does work. There’s additional comments on pickup machines in there that also may be of use.

If you use HOLD as the Pickup trigger type, pressing and HOLDing the AB button starts recording, letting go drops into play, pressing it again goes to overdub. You can trigger that via MIDI if you wanted to sequence that behavior.

Given that this is mid-September, I would not install an OS update before an early November show, even if one were to appear. I know some people would, but given the track record of this particular piece of hardware, any real update would be fairly large and extensive and probably would need a lot of help from beta testers/current owners (same thing really) to stabilize it in real world conditions.

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9

…thanx for response…

and thanks for leading me to hold mode…

if it would only work!

blank project now…
setting up new pick up machine…
max out recording time…

first recording by pressing hold leads to heavy repeating on step 1…!!!

changed to 64 steps of recording time…
same result.

change to one2 trig mode…
works…for now.

changing the recording concept?
hmmmmm…ok.
…but i need a constant through signal and the option to catch that live signal
at any time…still able to perform on top…

and i can’t free up tracks, really…this here only works with a fixed track layout…
and i need all the tracks for special purposes already…

most important part of the new live concept is, a man, a mic, a machine and lots of free space on stage constantly changing happenings and performers…
and i defenitly did’nt bought the ot to bring an extra looper with me…
the whole rig must be able to move…and i got a mic in one hand during almost the whole show…
can handle the ot anyway but add on gear or footcontrolers are no option…

and alll other recording ways seem to need preparation each time or are not possible to trigger with one hand left…
'cause while i record, i got that mic in front of my face, of course…and there is no way, i’ll use a mic stand either…

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10

there might be a point in the future, possibly the close future, where you realize that your expectations go beyond what the OT can do at the moment.
it’s really simple. The pickup machines are buggy, unreliable, fiddly, and ultimately, not well thought out. Some people love them, some use them all the time, they have adapted their workflow to the machines.
In your case, you seem very determined to NOT adapt your workflow. You must therefore find a machine that WILL adapt to your needs, and the OT is clearly not it. To be really honest, if I wanted a looper, I’d look in to Boss or other companies that have been doing loopers forever. You may find that this is exactly what you need.
The fact that you have a deadline and a show coming up is not going to change anything in the OT. It is what it is, and if it’s not right for you, no amount of “pre sold tickets” is going to make a difference.
We’re really trying to help here, and suggest alternate ways of working or alternate gear. If you insist on using the OT for something it’s not meant to do properly, you’re heading straight into a hard, brick wall.
So, again, you can use Flex machines to overdub onto. You can get a proper looper. Or you can accept the unstable nature of the OT at the moment, and go with it. In the case of a serious show though, I would never rely on pickup machines though, that’s for sure.
Elektron are way too busy at the moment to update the OT, I have a feeling it will only come after Overbridge. In the meantime, what you see is what you get :slight_smile:
Cheers !

11

…and this damned ipad is acting weird on this forum…double bubble…

12

…thanx for clear words,

but…

the ot is the perfect tool for what i wanna do with it, if only these pickup machines could safely do what every second cheap multi fx guitar pedal can do these days…

really too much to ask from a 1200 bucks machine with such a professional approach?
i don’t think so…

if i have to end up with the impression, that every windows pc laptop is more stable than this box, what a sad day that would be…

elektron is not the first company that got lost in trouble, because of releasing too much new stuff in a row while forgetting that their good name is founded on good support and professional timeless solutions…

this machine has heaps of unfinished business…fact.

and no next fancy table disco colour pads will make it any better…

and nevertheless, i AM changing my workflow for the ot…
that’s what i bought it for…and i’m willing to dive deep into this machine…
but i’m not some nerd or hobby dj trying to show off once in a while in front of some other nerds and friends ehile trying to impress myself and some girls…

i need some basic things for granted, otherwise it’s impossible to actually WORK with this on daily bases…

the octatrack is the ONLY solution out there to bring complete studioproductions one to one on stage without a computer, while beeing still able to perform and to surprise yourself here and there while doin’ your thing 200 times a year…

so i’m afraid, i will only shut up, once elektron is keeping their promise again…
in machine drum only times, no costumer was left alone with buggy essentials…

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13

no one’s asking you to shut up :slight_smile:
everyone knows the OT is evolving, and in need of some serious love.
the pickup machines are clearly not competent at doing what you want them to, I’m not sure what else you expect anyone to say. Your complaining is not changing this. It’s too bad, but that’s how it is.
I am sure that Elektron will, in time, update the OT. However, your deadlines have absolutely no impact on their deadlines. That much is certain. Everyone else is doing music, releasing it and performing it, with the OT in its current, buggy, state. I’m not sure why you cannot do the same. I play every week end with the OT as my center piece, it works great for my use, I don’t use pickup machines, because they don’t work for me.
I think it’s unrealistic for you to expect Elektron to deliver anything because you have a show. We all have shows. And releases. And clients. Try to imagine a world WITHOUT the OT…how would you manage that ? What alternatives do you have ? How would you go about SOLVING the problem, instead of complaining about it on forums that are very rarely read by Elektron ?

14

Seriously, just get off the pickups. It is a silly tack-on publicity stunt. There’s nothing there, even if they worked as advertised. Just roll up the sleeves and get to work on the flexs. Your 8 tracks already have record buffers that run matrix-wise, independently of playback, and with sample locks you can sneak recs in on any track whenever there’s nothing else going on. If you want to layer/bounce, just route to and resample CUE. Never had a single hiccup. Literally.

EDIT: I don’t mean this as putdown to anybody getting them to work in their setup. Just that the volume of text in this thread seems to indicate that they aren’t, for you.

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15

Hello reeloy, I second what secretmusic says…

In a way I understand you because when I bought the OT (still in beta OS 0.9X something) I had a huge gig in Hungary in front of 3000-4000 people… and the OT was buggy as hell…

First of all I contact them directly and had a long sending, recieving emails happy time… with no solution…

I bought the OT within 2 months of that gig, and had 2 weeks to check all properly once loaded in the OT… because of many issues, I had to change my setup-idea 3 times… so like secretmusic says, start planing something, a work around… or accept that you might need extra gear…

I understand the profesional concern of a big venue, having a contract, people, promotion, expectations… but it is your job to find a way to deliver it propperly…

If I were you, I would prepare the set 100% the same than on stage and practice to see what happens… then find solutions to whatever issue appears…

Hope it helps, good luck!

16

I neither swear by the pickup machines, nor do I swear at them. :alien:

When I use them, I set the recording lengths conservatively - 64 or under. If I am using more than one pickup machine, I set the lengths even shorter - 32 or less. I follow the example set by Anders Bergdahl, who is also a longtime pickup machine user. I suspect he never has any problems because he uses such short recording lengths. The closer you get to using the total maximum recording time of the OT (16 seconds by default) the more likely the risk of encountering a bug.

As I have always said, I feel sympathy for those who bought the OT expecting the ultimate looping machine. It is not that right now. I felt disappointed too, but have kept mine because it lets me manipulate audio in ways that are unique to it as a hardware device. People bring up other hardware devices like the Gotharman Little Deformer and whatnot but they all do something different - maybe they can do things the OT can’t but the OT can also do it’s own things that the others can’t either.

Anyway, there always seems to be someone who wants to buy an Octatrack right now, so anyone who is disappointed in his/her Octatrack should have little trouble selling it if it comes to that.

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17

…ha.

i hear you, guys…

even if i surley never expected, with my endless complaining ,any update speeding up in time, just because it would suit my timing and idea of a solid design, i say it again…a lot of things left to do here…

but hey…i really have to get things straight here right from scratch…
so i had only one moment just for fun with the ot until now…
and that was a great one…

so let’s face it…i’m on the hook…and i surely i won’t sell this weird and wonderful bag of bugs…
i will find a workaround for sure…
and i gonna sample with my new sampler…one day…

so it’s official…pickups won’t do the job…
got an alternative already, that’s still fitting the setting…a voice live touch2…
got a looper with six separate layers which is even capable of following a midi clock with no fuzz…imagine that!

18

nice :slight_smile:

let’s hear some of the results !

19

On the other hand, if pickup machines in a future release work like a Boss looper i will stop using them… if you want a loopstation, get one…

On the other hand if you use several loopers on the Octatrack, you can undo. a take…

I do wish that the Pickup machines would be more like the EDP, a truly great looper… or the LP1… lots of good ideas in those two…

As stated above i use the pickup machines a lot, i had no wish when they came that they should work like any other machine… i explored them and let their quirks inspire me… I think they are great for creating rhytmic stuff, either by using short replace patterns (manually replacing short parts of the loop) or by sampling grains from a flex track and creating random and evolving grain cloud rhythms…
Maybe you should explore some of those techniques and see it you get new inspiration…
Another thing i recently started to explore is to play the loop through neighbor machines, that way you can apply rhytmic filters, delays, combfilter and a lot of other craxy stuff.
By using the reorder that holds the loop as the source for a flex you can pitch shift the loop, change rate and, as with neighbor machines, use the sequencer for all sorts of fun stuff…

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20

…sure, this box is great fun and an endless field of exloring and exoperimenting…

but i have heaps of stuff to play with…

i trusted the commercials, the promo and the promises…
and thought i’d get a serious workhorse i can put the weight of a tourshow on it’s shoulders…

but i found out, this is not the case…

so i paid 1200 bucks for a really nice audio mangler that can do some nice show off stuff on stage…but i still will need all the rest of my stuff because i’ll never can trust this thing…
no matter if you see the pickups as a bad joke or just as a nice add on to fool around with…