Per the subject line - I am surprised at how difficult it is (for me) to find a great parameter modulator/sequencer for Ableton (I’m on v11). Basically I want to modulate plugin (eg synth) parameters using a beautiful and fun modulator, probably a Max device. A simple LFO (like the default Ableton Suite one) won’t cut it - I need more precision - eg pinging a parameter once every 20 beats.
Examples of the kind of thing I am looking for are Octo Seq, 3 x Parameter Seq and Stepper. But with due respect to the devs, these are long in the tooth, a bit janky, and I can barely see their tiny interfaces. I am looking for something with a beautiful clear interface, preferably expandable. A lot of the beautiful sequencers seem to be for pitch only, I want something parameter agnostic.
I will happily pay for the right tool. I was hoping Fors Opal could do this. Opal does have a plugin parameter sequencer, but unfortunately on Opal you can’t use “trigless trigs,” that is you can’t trigger a synth parameter without sending pitch/gate information.
My dream would be something like the beautiful Infiltrator 2 modulator, or Numerology, or Opal, that I could attach to any Ableton plugin parameter. Preferably with different curves including full gate steps, and even better if I could draw curves and ramps when I want to.
I really welcome any recommendations! I can’t help but think this exists and I just haven’t found it. I haven’t tried Ableton 12 yet so maybe it is lurking in there.
Stepic [paid, 10 lanes of params] or MDD_Snake [free, 3 sections of params], put them on a separate midi track if you don’t want the note data and just map your devices.
both excel and fall short in their own ways, I prefer Stepic for this but not always.
btw there was a thread for m4l sequencers, maybe more recommendations in there
Thanks - Steptic looks good, but there is a whole lot of clutter on the interface. I prefer clean, simple and beautiful. But I’ll take a very close look.
it looks cluttered on the notes side but the automation section is very fast and clean, I’ll try to dig up some good demos
so I only found this one, it’s for FL Studio, it’s the same thing but in Live version you just have a param map button which is super fast and easy, the sequencing is the same
tried to make a quick one just to illustrate how it works in Live, poor demo but should give you the idea, btw it works with hardware too, you can set channels/cc# directly from the plugin
the main problem with sequencing automated values is not the posibility but its thruput. Meaning how much data is generated that needs to be fast enough to be called sequence and not a latency machine. All that is not that easy because midi output is a serial signal which has a maximum capacity it can take until real time bytes (transport and clock) are not stable to be found anywhere on a stream and therfor your machinery in slave mode hangs or stops.
Ableton does not have some magic algo that sorts all the put data between the clock, it just fires on the stream regardless, like most software sequencers do.
and many sequencer do not even take care of the “overload” problem they just sequence…
if the sequencer is running solely in the digital domain without external output the problem is not that huge, despite still existing.
So i read your question more like how many parameters do you need per step to be able to communicated.
so for those who wanna try programming in MAX (C or C++, or even patching) here some basic information that express the physical boundaries of one midi stream (midi1.0 as 16channel universe) in simplified form as thruput.
With thruput i mean the amount of complete CC commands in between two ticks. The amount differs when tempo changes… here you go…
30bpm fit 266 CC messages 120bpm fit 66 CC messages 300bpm fit 26 CC messages
if you are “spaming” more you very guaranteed to introduce jitter (unstable clock).
Maybe good to mention that is thruput per tick space on the stream. A classic Sequencer likely has 24PPQ so also 24ticks per step. So as long you change values for a step sequencer (the numbers are interpreted on next trig of a full step) you can multiply the thruput by 24, but still not more to keep a stable clock. Or different spelled: you need to keep one midi byte space for one 0xF8 message aka tick at least each 26th (see table) midi byte.
…a lot has happened and changed with version 12…u might wanna consider to just buy into the upgrade…abletons good old piano roll editor offers now heaps of midimutation options that cover lots of former max only ground…
Seqund looks lovely but is it pitch/gate only? I want to modulate all kind of parameters and be able to freely assign sequencer lanes to any plugin parameter.
it’s developed by people who really know about max…
and it’s ui is pretty nice, clean and simple…really sums up a wide terretory of former max only parameter controls on the fly and in one comfortable, universal mainframe for a damned reasonable and fair price tag…
and if u really wanna go TOTALLY free assignable modulation of EVERYTHING at any given point of progress without any lack of oversight and drowning in clumsyness, all within a clean and clever universal ui design, bitwig is ur best and pretty much only one for all solution to get there…
So can I set up sequined in front or, say, pigments, and assign a lane of Seqund to any (available) parameter in the synth with a few clicks? That’s the objective.
…seqond is kind of a best of all max options in one thing…
but nope, it talks to all sorts of synth plugins, but “only” within it’s prewired options…
which are pretty effective and universal…not that much to miss here, really…combines heaps of max little special gimmicks at once, but sticks to it’s pre given layout, no matter what…
which makes it the weapon it actually is…
while the way u dream of, only worx in bitwig, exactly as u want it…
no matter which parameter of any third party plugin with it’s very own parameter layout can be easily adressed in bitwig…but ur committed to ableton…ooook…
then back to square one…give seqond a try…u’ll be surprised how pigments will start to talk freely, once fed by seqond, promise…
…nope…but it’s new additions of midimutations turn it’s classic piano roll editor workflow into a totally new beast…it’s abletons latest answer to bitwigs overall options, kinda…
in 12 u defenitly don’t need any additional max devices to make ur midi parameters fly…
but u must like abletons overall ui approach a lot, to get happy…
which remains bedroom producers number one for too many good reasons, but it’s defenitly not the latest smooth solution in overall daw concept design…
New in Infiltrator 2: use the MIDI CC effect module to output Infiltrator’s envelopes as MIDI CC data, which (host software permitting) can be routed to control external effects and synths!
there’s probably a dozen different takes on modulation sequencers in ableton. the max for live devices are amazing these days. here’s a few places to look.
check out dillon’s Markov Variations. pretty amazing preset morphing modulator and it’s free part of his ‘free bundle’
Been trough this quest and ended up using a lot Sequence8 by incandescent. Super clean, focused and lightweight. But it’s simpler than what your are looking for I think.
Survey looks awesome, I’m going to check this out.
forgot to mention the K-devices stuff.amazing modulators for max for live users… the “modulators 21” bundle is dope but there’s a whole slew of devices there that are awesome for sequencing modulations, envelope followers etc. currently 40% off sale. essential stuff.
Really appreciate all the replies! I’ll carefully go through this. I think waiting until the next Ableton sale (probably November) and upgrading to Lice 12 Suite is probably th best first step, and then I’ll gauge the gaps from there
“Steps” (linked above) is a perfect interim solution.
