Per channel latency compensation ? (on any DAW)

The Lounge Other Gear
1

Hi there,

I have one last question/hope before I buy an E-RM Multiclock.
I’ll try to be as clear as I can.

My setup :
DAW as master clock
sending midi via the soundcard midi out port (Steinberg UR816C)
to the Digitakt, and then the other gear…

Everything is not perfectly sync, every synth as his own latency due to how it’s built and its position in the midi path. For example :
Digitakt as the lowest latency.
Digitone is 2ms late from the DT.
TR-09 is 4ms late from the DT.
And so on…

So the problem is : the different audio signals from the different channels are not aligned because the DAW records the audio signal from every channel, without any care of having the audio signal aligned or not with the others channels. It seems obvious.

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(Note that I don’t care about an overall latency due to the time that necessarly exist from the moment the midi clock signal is sent from the DAW to the audio signal coming back to the DAW from my gear. I don’t care if I have 50ms latency, if all the channels are precisely 50ms late.)

So, the question is : is it possible to record with a certain amount of latency on each channel of a DAW ? Let’s say I want to record the Digitakt with 4ms latency, the Digitone with 2ms, the TR-09 with 4ms… to realign everything.

I looked in Reason 11, Bitwig 4 and Live 11, without any success.
What I can do is use a Time Slider Rack extension on Reason, Time Shift on Bitwig or the Track Delay on Ableton to realign the sound…
But theses devices work post-recording : they readjust the time of a misaligned sound so we can hear it aligned. And actually, yes, I can hear the sound perfectly aligned thanks to these devices, but the recording itself is still misaligned in the DAW.
I want to be able to line up the sound to the grid at the moment it’s recorded. Basically, I need a “pre-rec/post rec” switch on the Ableton’s Time Delay…

Any DAW capable of that? Or am I missing something? Any other ideas?

I realise that’s something I could resolve with a Multiclock.
But I really don’t get how is it possible to not have a so simple feature on DAWs that are so great and completes.

Thanks!

2

It’s possible in Ableton Live.

Next to the master fader there’s a series of buttons that control what GUI options appear on the tracks:
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press the D button and you will see track delay on every track:

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That being said, I’ve always found these things to be a bit variable in practice and have gotten used to having to fix this by hand when recording, sadly.

3

Thanks but the Track Delay allows to delay the ouput of a track.
I want to be able to delay the input when recording, not the output when playing.

4

You can set the latency in the ERM in each channel. It’s easier that way. In Ableton it changes because Ableton sucks with PDC and as said above, it is variable,. The best way to record is to have the latencies setup on the ERM and have an ableton project with no plugins and monitoring off in each audio channel.

The best thing you can do is not get over obsessed with precisely exact timing. It won’t happen, or it will now and then and you will obsess trying to get it every time.

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6

Good MIDI throughs should be instantaneous but definitely some hardware uses a soft midi through that goes through the microprocessor and back out. You might reduce the problem by reordering the chain and find some gear add no delay compared to others.

I suspect there’s also the issue of just how slow some devices are to respond to the incoming midi signal

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7

Why not just set a negative track delay of 2-4ms on each track to compensate for the recordings?

8

Pretty sure it is possible to do in Reason manually. I haven’t looked for a while but on the back of each mixer channel in the rack I think you can manually adjust the delay compensation. I tried time slider RE you mentioned but didn’t find it to any easier really.

9

Never though about a MIDI interface, thanks!

Haaaa Reason and its hidden features… :roll_eyes: thanks, but it’s the same issue here : the delay compensation allows you to delay the output to the master channel, not the input at the moment you’re recording.

10

It’s possible in Bitwig using the HW Instrument device on an Instrument channel and having an Audio channel with the output of this device (not the instrument track itself) as its input. More info here: Question: HW Instrument Device/Track - Bitwig Forum - KVR Audio

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11

Perhaps Instead of buying the erm multiclock
Buy a midi interface with several ports so each synht has its own ins and outs

12

Thinking about it…
But for example, today, I control the TR-09 from the Digitakt. It’s : DAW Clock -> Digitakt -> TR-09.
I won’t be able to do that with a dedicated midi for each instrument from a midi interface, right? I’ll have to control the TR-09 from ableton…?

13

No you still can control the tr-09 from the digitakt
In ableton, miditrack midi in your digitakt, midi out to your Tr-09

I (can) control al my synths from my DT ,DN and MnM thru Cubase

Having a dedicated midi interface with several midi outs and ins is just very practical, compared to chaining devices thru there midi thru port
For instance you can give each midi port the name of the synth it is connected with, and you can make a (start)template in ableton where you configure which instrument you want to control with your DT or an other instrument.

Each time you want to start something new you can start from this template and everything is configured the way you want/like
And you will relief your soundcard of that MIDI duty.

14

Again, why does this matter to you if you use a negative delay? It’ll record “late”, but then the track delay will fix it every time it’s played back. Does it matter if the audio file is sitting 2ms late after recording but track delay shifts it back into place? If it does, you could always then transfer it to another audio track, printing the track delay onto a new track.

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