After several years of accumulating gears, I need to reconfigure my studio to setup a solution that let me monitor all my synths and drum machine at the same time, and having the possibility to choose wich source to record through my interface.
So, let me explain a bit more.
I have :
2 drum machines (AR & Drumbrute)
4 stereo synth (OP1/Volca FM/A4/TB03)
2 Mono synth (MS20/Leipzig)
2 mono FX
8 Inputs on my interface
So 34 output if I count the individuals outs and only 8 ins.
I repeat that the solution I’m looking for should allow me to monitor everything at the same time, preferably through my interface on the computer, and I’d like to have the possibility of quickly select a source and record it separatly from the main mix (at least if I still have an available input).
I know how works a Patchbay. It can solve the problem of the individual recording of a synth (or voice) if I plug a cable from the output into one In of my soundcard. But how about monitoring all the source at the same time ? As far as I know it’s not possible with a patchbay, or maybe I miss something.
On the other side, a mixer (wich I don’t have for now) with enough Ins, can allow me to monitor everyone, but I guess it would be more complicated to quickly route a voice into the soundcard.
I also fear that a mixer with this amount of Ins will have a big foot print right ?
From your experiences, how does people, especially those with a huge studio full of gear, solve this issue ?
You either bite the bullet and invest in the large mixer or get a smaller one and a patch bay and settle for not monitoring everything at once. Scaling up even further you can look into MADI etc, heh…
i have a decent amount of hardware and to have everything set up and monitored simultaneously i hook stuff into two 10 channel mixers and then send those mixer output signals to a main mixer. its a hassle and setting up unity gain takes a while. it sounds like for simplicity your best bet is gonna be a rather large multi input mixer but those can be rather expensive.
You need a mixer with a large number of inputs and some output busses.
I use an old Mackie LM-3204 mixer which has 16 stereo input channels, a few aux sends, and an alt output bus, but fits into 5U of rack space.
Your effects outputs can go into dedicated effects return channels that are provided on most mixers. If you are willing to compromise very slightly on your requirements, then you should be able to get by with something like a Mackie 1604VLZ and a patchbay.
Well, I guess my best bet is, as @PeterHanes says, to invest in a mixer plus a patchbay.
The LM3204 seems nice if I can find an used one.
I guess if I combine it with a bay, I can plug everything on the bay, route all the inputs in the mixer and the master bus back into the soundcard Ins via the patchbay. Then if I want to record a synth separatly, I just have to unplug it from the mixer and route it to the soundcard.
Am I right ? @PeterHanes & @Tornfrayed, can you please explain a bit more how your setup works ?
Otherwise, how does the insert works on those kind of mixer ? I know you need to plug the effects in the inserts inputs on the back, but then how to plug one on a sound source ? And, can you use one FX on several synths ?
My solution is a saffire pro 40 (8 inputs) twinned with an octopre via adat giving an extra 8 inputs. I then route all my hardware to a patchbay with the most used hardware normalled to the interface inputs.
My FX unit ins and outs are connected to the patchbay along with some of the lesser used hardware.
I like the flexibility of this so I can send any synth to any FX unit or create a chain without disconnecting anything. The interface has hardware monitoring and can save mix settings with the computer off as well which is handy.
The LM-3204 works for me because I work almost exclusively in stereo and rarely use multitrack recording.
I think that there are better options for you in more conventional mixers that have multiple output busses. That’s why I mentioned the Mackie 1604 (and there are no doubt other similar units), because you can assign any signal to its 8 output busses. With your stated preferences, you would probably want to add a patchbay (or even a small submixer) for your less-frequently used drum machine outputs.
Or if you have the budget you could choose an A&H QuPac which would keep the profile small and provide built-in basic effects and computer interfacing.
This is getting off-topic, but you connect the mixer’s insert send to the input of a processing device and the output of the processing device to the mixer’s insert return.
The sound from an instrument goes into the mixer channel input and then is sent to and returned from the processing device. Therefore the processing only applies to the sound on that specific mixer channel. This is why inserts are commonly used for compressors, while reverbs (which are often used to affect the signals from many channels) are usually connected to the mixer’s aux sends and returns.
Yeah a modest mixer and patchbay seems to be your best option to settle on what you need to hear when you need to hear it. Ultimate flexibility. But don’t underestimate the cabling cost involved. you need double what you have now at least!
Otherwise you could go with a massive channel count mixer preferably something 8bus so you don’t need a patchbay for your interface ins.
Or, another thought is you could use some cheap line mixers like the behringer eurorack one or the awesome Speck Xsum (or hell, an Xtramix if you can find one and have the money!) to get all your outs into one main mixer with less of a footprint (use this for mixing the stems and routing them to your interface).
If you are just routing line outputs I think you can prob find a solution without a patchbay, perhaps creative use of some Aux sends if your not using them for efx? Also keep in mind that on most mixers you can use the inserts as just a direct out (for connecting into your interface) either with or without signal interruption to the channel depending on how you have a TS cable inserted into the jack.
Also, one last thing I thought of that might be helpful… its something that I am coming to terms with myself. Don’t feel like you need to arrive at the FINAL FORM of your studio or workflow before you can do things. Try things in steps. Maybe just get a mixer that is a step up from what you have now, say the mackie 1604. See how just that works out first. Does the input count and monitoring fit your workflow, not enough channels? If not, then maybe get a patchbay, or an additional line mixer… If you jump in all at once to a ton of gear and cables and routings, be prepared for a new learning curve and a hit in workflow/creativity for awhile, at least thats been true for me.
@PeterHanes I read that there is 2 out busses on the 3204, but can you use the aux as output busses too ? In other word, is it possible to have more busses than the main stereo ?*
A QuPac seems nice, put too pricey ATM.
The Mackie 1604 is good but probably too big for my humble space. I’ve check the MS1202 (damn cheap) but only 1 stereo bus. Anyway, a mixer like the MS1202 should fit in my space.
Interesting ! Does it mean that if you have 2 send/return & 2 insert, you can have 4 more outs ?
Good words, you’re totally right about that. I just need to remember it
A channel insert send only provides the signal that is connected to the channel input. So if you want a different signal to go out of the insert send, you have to repatch what is connected to the channel input.
Unfortunately its as Peter says. Two TRS insert jacks on your mixer will only get you two outs. If you are using it as a direct out with just a TS cable (instead of the standard insert y cable) you are only using the send (from the mixer) and the other half, the return, is unused. An insert is a loop out from a channel or bus and back in.
Here is a wiring diagram that might make it clearer:
I’m sorry if we got a little off track talking about direct outs as again I have to agree with Peter… after reading your orig. post… its seems like what you really want to do is have all your interface ins freely assignable from your mixer, which means bus outs are THE solution. (and/or with a combo of unused Aux sends)
If the 4 bus 1604 is too big space-wise, i think you’ll be hard pressed to find a full 8 bus mixer that meets your requirements. The only thing I can think of is the Speck Xtramix. They are discontinued, and went for about 5000$US new… they pop up occasionally on the used markets for around 3000. Expensive, but what a beast of a mixer!
Thanks @Rew and @PeterHanes for you help. I understand now.
I’ll maybe try to find a mixer with direct out and associate it with a patchbay, or maybe grab a basic cheap mixer and see what I can do with it.
