OT vs AR Sample player comparison

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
1

Ok, nice, a sample fly bit me, completing my synth cravings.

As if my quest for nifty, liveable synth sequencer setup, that is small enough to carry without a car wasn’t difficult enough already.

I would want an interesting synth, that has a sequencer with what you can compose breathing music on air. It seems, that my only alternatives are coming from either Elektron or Radikal.

  1. Can the Rytm transpose the sequences while playing like the Analog Keys?(and what if I had both, and transposed the sequence with AK, would the patterns played by Rytm follow?).

  2. What kind differences does the OT and Rytm have on their sample parameter pages?

  3. How stretchy their interpolation algorithms are compared to each other(and perhaps other samplers you know)?

  4. What about sound?

2

  1. No.

  2. Go read the manuals for exact details. The basics:
    [ul]
    [li]The Rytm has 2 octaves pitching in each direction. The OT only 1 octave per direction.[/li]
    [li]OT has timestretch, Rytm doesn’t. Going with this, OT has a rate parameter separate from pitch[/li]
    [li]Rytm has a bit-rate parameter right on the sample page, though the OT can do this separately through its Lofi effect[/li]
    [li]Both have start point parameters, but since the OT can slice samples, it is also used as a slice selector, something not available on Rytm.[/li]
    [li]Slightly different ways of reversing samples. On OT you set a negative rate, whereas on Rytm you have an endpoint parameter that you can set to earlier than the start point[/li]
    [/ul]

  3. The Rytm doesn’t have an interpolation algorithm. If you pitch a sound up, it gets faster. The OT does - I’d say its algorithm sounds good, though I’m sure you can beat it w/ software. Gets pretty gnarly at extreme settings. In general, its something I can make work in a mix.

  4. The OT sounds pretty sterile. Some people say that what you put in to the OT is what you get out. I personally don’t quite agree with that. I don’t know if it’s the A/D or D/A converters, but for some reason I find the OT takes a little bit of punch or depth out of sounds. To be clear, I still like the OT and find it totally usable - but it doesn’t immediately impart the punch or grit of, for example, the Roland SP-404 or MPCs I’ve used in the past.

On the other hand, the Rytm TOTALLY delivers in this department. Out of all of the Elektron machines I’ve used, I immediately like its sonic signature the most. There are a few factors at work here – per channel overdrive, analog filters, master distortion, and the master compressor – and they all sound quite good to me. Lots of sonic shaping for your samples. It’s a lot easier to get convincing warmth and grit (I know, bullshit audio words) out of the Rytm with samples.

Of course, it’s much harder to get samples on the AR in the first place, and aside from the pitching range, there’s less flexibility.

So to return to the beginning: you can compose “breathing music” on either. The OT can also sequence other synths, if you need that. But largely, it seems like a question of what you need more: drums, or a real sampler.

3

^^^ everything that he said.

I think that the OT + SP404sx is a very, very good combination.

The audio quality of the OT leaves a lot to be desired, unless you’re going for a flat 2-d sound (which isn’t bad - Actress uses it amazingly). It hasn’t got good converters either - pretty shyte really for direct sampling. But it’s a quality box, no doubt whatsoever and I enjoy mine a lot.

The SP, on the other hand, is bright and clear and modern and crisp, with nice converters and FX (to my ears, anyways). You can sync to the OT or sample into the 404 from the OT to use it’s FX etc… But it’s nowhere near as powerful in how it manipulates things.

Funny, Jamrod, I was selling someone on the same combo last night on Youtube - OT&SP, deadly.

4

On the subject of sample slicing, if you have an iPad you can use the STROM app to slice any samples as you like and then send the individual slices into your Rytm. You can then load them into your project. STROM also offers pitch change (can’t remember how many octaves), so by saving and transferring your samples at more than one pitch, you could effectively extend the octave range of the Rytm. For example, if you pitch a sample up +2 octaves in STROM before transferring it, you would still be able to raise it by a further +2 octaves in Rytm. Therefore, if you transferred both your default sample (+0 octaves) and the pitched-up sample (+ 2 octaves), you would effectively have a +4 Octave range across the 2 samples. And given that you can select different samples for every P-lock you set up in Rytm, you would only have to use one track to get this range,

Alternatively, regarding slicing using the Rytm itself, on the sample page you can set P-locks manually on the Start and End points for every trig, which gives you some functionality here. It’s fiddly and might not always lead to the ‘slice’ you want (I suppose it depends on how long your sample is and how many workable slices you want out of it), but it kinda works.

So it’s all about preparation, basically. This isn’t something you can do reliably live.

As for sequence transposition, maybe you could accomplish something using different scenes. If I recall correctly, you set up a whole new set of P-locks per scene. Therefore you could manually transpose the tuning of all your trigs (more preparation!) and end up with a different set of transpositions for every scene pad. So you could have a default melody line, then one that’s pitched up a bit on Scene 1, down a bit on Scene 2, etc. As long as you know the transpositions you want ahead of time, you can prepare the P-locks accordingly.

I think you can do a lot of stuff with Rytm’s scenes, performance mode and P-locks that arguably should have been easier functionality in the box by default, as long as you prepare and think creatively. Just writing the things above has been an interesting thought process for me - I’m still working out the drum synthesis and haven’t really dived headlong into the performance options yet!

One thing I would really like is to be able to set up new trigs for every scene. Elektron maybe think that you should make a new pattern each time, but for me it would be easier to switch to scene mode and hit the pads than fiddle around with bank changes and try to remember which pattern is which!

5

Can you eloborate on what way they would work together? The SP404 being an external sampler, how would that compensate for the OT’s lack of sound quality? If its just a case of syncing what purpose would the OT serve? If it’s sampling from the OT into it would that help when the conversions already been done with the OT.
Also what is the SP404sx like as a field recorder? As this is something I need.

6

There is a mic on the sp-404 and its battery powered but it’s not really a field recorder. The og 404(1st gen) has a grittier sound, for lack of a better word. The sx may be quite sterile but idk bc I don’t have that one.

I had the OT for a very short time and thought it sounded pretty good. I sold it for the ar and am glad I did. I actually prefer the sample mangling on it. The OT can do just about anything but it’s not as easy to dial in IMHO. The ar is not as precise but that has led to happy accidents. I do think one thing that’s useful about the ar is how it usually sounds great and it’s soo easy to find sweet spots. Plus the sample/synth integration is exciting.

Back to the 404, I’d say get the og but that’s bc it’s what I got and I love it.

7

I liked the sound of the 404 too, but you can only have 1 effect active for ALL your samples. That really threw me off… Would have been cool if every sample had its own fx settings.

8

Resample for tha boom bap :wink:

9

Sure thing.

They work together as complimentary samplers. They have complimentary sounds, one bright and raw and sounding like Stonesthrow or Brainfeeder, the other like the most intelligent degraded VHS tape you’ve ever heard.

The SP is a good field recorder - records in WAV format a very high rate!! But you need an external mic, the inbuilt mic is worth about $10.

And yes, the SP will improve sounds that have been converted by the OT. There’s this saturation thing it gets in upper-mids, it’s very usable and recognizable.

And the sx over the straight 404. Sharper sound, quicker CPU, better storage data, and higher fidelity for sampling.

10

Thanks, something to look into.

I don’t think the OT sounds bad but I can totally see what people mean by it being a bit sterile, it was first noticable when compared side by side with the rich sound of my AR.

11

Just for arguments sake the og vs sx duel is ripe. Some might say the sx is better but others say the sound is cold. The og is not really slower than the sx in a way that anyone could really notice. However, I still don’t get why roland won’t make a program for the og like sx has; they OBVIOUSLY can do it bc og files can be translated into sx territory (but not the other way, wtf?). I would like an sx but the og is good enough. Another thing is that the og has stronger effects.

And yes it would work as a portable recorder but you do need a good mic which adds to the bulkiness, which is fine if you’re not doing outdoor recording.

Anyway, both are very fun, slightly limited but well worth the money.

12

There’s no duel - I have a 303. I think the sonic character of the 404 is brilliant, but it is slower than the 404sx and less adaptable.

13

You’re no fun kotare!

The sp-808 sounds the best of that whole series IMO. And the great thing about that is the fact that zips are so damn handy. :slight_smile:

14

Oh I agree, which is why I own one. But only for the parallel FX :wink:

15

THANK YOU (googled ‘RYTM reverse sample’). I did not think reversing samples was possible. Just tried this and checked the manual. I’ve had the RYM for a year now and never known. So thank you again.

16

[quote=“” KOTARE""]
There’s no duel - I have a 303. I think the sonic character of the 404 is brilliant, but it is slower than the 404sx and less adaptable.
[/quote]

Kotare,
If I would get just one of these, which one? I’d slave it to my Rytm and I don’t need many voices, just something that triggers loops in a sequence to build up a song, and that sounds great - not clean, but great.
Tried the 202 and that’s where I draw the line in terms of features. Too limited. But close, though.

17

404sx.

Quick to work with, great FX, SD card (the others use CF cards…), huge recording capacity, nice sound.

They all have very basic pattern sequencers. I find it best to trigger samples via an OT MIDI track.

18

[quote=“” KOTARE""]
404sx.

Quick to work with, great FX, SD card (the others use CF cards…), huge recording capacity, nice sound.

They all have very basic pattern sequencers. I find it best to trigger samples via an OT MIDI track.
[/quote]

Is the 404sx capable of OT style quantized transition looping?
I’m close to buying a Pigtronix Infinity Looper for this purpose. The 404sx is priced similarly, though, so it has my interest now after seeing it talked up here.

19

I’ve always been a fan of the ST-224 and I would place it a few steps ahead of the SP-202. It’s a little gritty sounding so it depends on the user if that is a good or a bad thing. You don’t get a ton of sample time but it can save and load via Smartmedia. It has a very easy to use sequencer, rudimentary effects (reverb, distortion and a stereo widening effect are all decent) and allows for basic editing like pitch and start/end points.
If you want to truly be just one step ahead of the 202, the old Roland MS-1 might do the trick. It has a sequencer, allows you to edit start/end points and that’s about it.

20

Is the 404sx capable of OT style quantized transition looping?
I’m close to buying a Pigtronix Infinity Looper for this purpose. The 404sx is priced similarly, though, so it has my interest now after seeing it talked up here.[/quote]

Hi Adam. Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean by this.

The 404sx will not work as a looper, you cannot live record while a sequenced pattern is playing. Other SPs will do this - I believe the 555 will, and it shares the same audio engine as the 404 (non SX version).

The 404sx has a rudimentary and interesting time stretch algorithm and a very nice playback sound, along with simple yet effective FX. It very good at quick pattern building and is a staple sound of Stonesthrow and some Brainfeeder style sounds.