Firstly, I don’t want my synths to sound “particularly soft”.
Secondly, I have absolutely no interest in trying to persuade anyone else that the way I do/hear things should be the way they do/hear things. I really think everyone here has the intelligence to experiment for themselves and figure out their own best way of working.
Thank you.
Me neither ! I want that what is in is what is out !
I had always thought that OT was transparent, but yesterday I began to doubt it… Reading your words made me think there may be something to investigate.
I don’t know why, but from your words I assumed that you had some waveforms or such kind of objective mean to compare.
It takes time, not only intelligence to do so…
If you are asking if the OT can perform as mixer with good sound, answer is emphatic YES. A lot of people doing this and doing it really well.
Agreed.
I sold the OT and kept the RYTM, the sweet audio of the RYTM is gold and I might get another OT. someday.
I find the internet cannot answer my original question or concern… its not really the ‘sound’ its the feel of the bass / air moving from the subs that is what I am questioning. And only from a raw analog source versus digital processing through an OT.
Either way … an interesting and serious concern for a performer but not worth stressing about.
I’ve never heard AD conversion that didn’t take something away from the signal. That said, I’ve never heard the top-tier converters, so…
And tbh I’d be worried if an ex BBC-approved mixing console with huge headroom and broadcast quality electronics would not sound better than the OT’s post-conversion mix.
What I can say though - I was also concerned about the OT’s sound quality before buying one. I find it totally acceptable however, remember to leave ample headroom and you should be good. Maybe not platinum-record-grammy-winning-mix good, but certainly good enough for most live venues.
(disclaimer: haven’t measured or A/B’d properly, opinion based on subjective experiences)
My personal experience with my Octatrack in my listening environment is that using Direct I have not noticed any difference but when using Thru machines I have on occasion noticed a difference. It’s not huge and you have to have directly A/B 'd to notice. I have never purposely checked the fidelity of the OT and have only noticed on the odd occasions I have switched from direct to Thru (I normally always use Thru Machines straight away because then the fader can have some affect on my midi tracks).
It does not bother me or stop me from using Thru machines. I did not carry out extensive tests to try and remedy the situation apart from removing all FX and zeroing the LFOs on the Thru track and confirming no Scene activity (to no avail). Plus I confirmed direct and thru levels were equal using the meters on TotalMix.
If asked to describe the difference I would say it sounded like a slight dip in the mid/high frequency range. One occasion I remember running a basic drum track from Electribe to OT, Kick and HiHat sounded the same but the snare sounded slightly “repressed” via the Thru track.
I’ve tested (objectively measured) the conversion of the Octatrack quite extensively - it is at least on par with an RME sound card. However, do take note that FX loaded onto a slot may color the sound (albeit only slightly) - for example the filter will remove some extreme upper harmonics. Be mindful of this if you want playback or playthrough without any coloring at all.
Is this something you can expand upon to put flesh on the bones? One aspect of OT conversion throughput which strikes me as slightly unhelpful in the chase for fidelity is the immediate -12dB reduction at input and subsequent boost (if sampling), that can’t be great for noise floor considerations. Especially if you’re only wanting to capture a single stereo pair optimally rather than feeding it to your MOTU/RME etc
On that note, i think it would be fantastic if you could say a bit more about any i/o facts/figures/insider-insights etc … just for the common good … there’s always a lot of chit-chat on here about exploiting the i/o(inc headphone outs) 
The vitriol is a major turnoff from an otherwise fascinating topic. Would you speak this way to someone’s face? I bet you’re a road rager too.
I think it stands to reason that any ADA conversion will result is some loss of fidelity. In some cases this could certainly be difficult to percieve. Simon’s input should lay to rest the question of degree. Nuff said, I hope.
Anyone care to share their own best practices/process for gain staging to maximize transparency and headroom? It seems something of a dark art to me.
OK, I listened the recording carefully, and it’s total crap.
Nothing to do with my dear OT, more with the pb being located between the keyboard and the chair…
I hear a solid difference between sound of external synth connected to the ext mixer and to the OT (even levels are correct). OT adds some colors and removes something from source signal. So I prefer to use external mixer in my studio and lives. Or just connect OT to A4’s inputs. But this difference is obvious only when you make one to one comparison of raw signal and signal passed thru OT’s inputs. For live I do not think that this is a big issue. If it is super important to have the best sound on stage I’d buy a cheap portable mixer.
This conversation has been going on for as long as the Octatrack has been in existence… Hell, this thread started in Jan '15.
Opinions range widely from “I wouldn’t trust the Octa for anything critical” to “It’s at least on par with RME interfaces”.
Elektron could maybe do the userbase (and their business!) a solid by doing a small comparison video – you know, content marketing and stuff As long as it’s some user on a forum doing the comparison, this thing won’t be put to rest. After all, it’s not like this is something unquantifiable.
My two cents: I think this OT throughput quality discussion is a case of the ‘MPC swing’. No matter if Roger Linn himself says that every other step is delayed by a few ticks, nothing else, there’s still a throng of believers ready to say it’s magic. In other words, the discussion has transcended reason and gone into the ‘feel’ realm, which is usually fine in the context of music, but with simple, quantifiable matters is just a way to drone on endlessly.
But I’ve never done any comparison, or even listened critically, so I might be wrong, and I don’t want to argue over this. Like I said, I’m not qualified.
Wow, what a thread… just got goosebumps when i read about a “proof”… just to show that some effect (in this case a degrade in terms of soundquality) exists doesn’t mean it is a proof
. There are so many factors to consider about this issue for ex. gain-staging, the quality of your ears and the tools used for measuring
the only thing i noticed with my ears when i put my Blofeld thru it is some sort of ‘limiting’ depending on the volume i used on the Blo
Question, if the sound goes through the mixer rather than a thru track does it bypass the AD converters? So theoretically less ‘damage’ to the sound?
I don’t care too much, I run everything through the OT and think it sounds good. Mainly curious.
It always goes through AD converters, always, this has been officially confirmed, so that’s why i raised an eyebrow about the difference between Thru and Mixer-Direct, Simon’s point adds a little bit to this, it would help to clear the FX assignments to none, but i guess there still could be other internal routing differences to account for a difference although both get the same AD conversion on the way in
Depends on the gear. Some gear really shines when run through the OT inputs…anything digital, really.
But to my ears my Tempest loses A LOT of dynamics when it’s put into the OT either as a thru machine or DIR. To be fair DIR sounds better than thru (as expected). But for this reason I never route any of my high end analog stuff into the OT.
Why expected, out of interest ?
As already stated, clear the FX slots and there is zero difference. Both THRU and DIR go through digital conversion.
Every A/D D/A conversion does “something” to the sound. To think otherwise is being foolish and a bit ignorant. High end studios invest thousands of dollars in high end conversion, for a reason. The OT’s converters are no Prism converters, let’s just keep it at that.
If you run a Volca synth through the OT, the problem is virtually non existent, but if you run a Voyager through the OT, there will be a noticeable “difference”. It’s difficult to quantify, and it’s also difficult to notice, depending on your monitoring system, your gain staging, and the material being fed through. You’re going from a purely analog signal to a digital interpretation of that signal, with all sorts of artefacts being introduced. Of course there will be a discrepancy.
What I think is a more valid point of discussion, is if users of the OT are “happy” with its sound. If most are, then the OT converters are fine, but, as pointed out by many, there is a sometimes noticeable “squashing” of the sound. Maybe it has to do with gain staging in certain cases, but Elektron are not helping by creating devices with no gain staging metering. We’re left with our ears, and feelings.
As it’s been pointed out before, certain sources actually benefit from being fed through the OT (weak digital sources), while others just sound better when running on their own channel on a nice mixer. Context (live or studio) is also a big part of the decision. For a live show, i see no issue with running sources through the OT, it’s extremely convenient and allows for crazy manipulation. For studio use, and if you’re looking for the most high end conversion possible, running sounds through a dedicated, pristine converter will yield better results, in most cases.
I use to be a very active member of the forums, but unfortunately, a few toxic users have all but ruined it for me and many others I know. When people can actually insult each other openly without being moderated, it shows a complete lack of love from the makers of this forum, and it makes me sad to even read most threads. In any case, I think the discussion at hand is very interesting, and deserves to be talked about in a civilised and grown up manner Cheers !
Since Elektronauts 2.0 started you will be very hard pushed to find a single example of open toxicity that was not challenged - the moderation is very active and the tone of the discourse is generally very positive and solution focussed - everyone is encouraged to take a more progressive stance with a view to adding to a discussion rather than just taking sides in polarising debates … disagreeing is good, it’s the manner of the disagreement which sometimes needed moderating - the example above in this old thread resulted in a self-exclusion, but it would not be tolerated now
with respect … this would sound a lot less like an entrenched opinion if you were able to substantiate it with an example from any recent threads (let alone most)
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