Hey, im just got my brand new Octatrack, and i have taken the final step away from the computer and over to the world of machines. yey!
However, like with all the Elektron machines, im having difficulty finding a good way to organize samples, which i have worked on for quite many years. My question here today is about “best practice” for finding, combining and testing samples on the fly…
This is my problem:
It all started very well, when i organized all my samples based on type in folders on my computer. I.e, Now i have one folder for real kicks, and one for techno kicks (harder stuff). Its often good to have these seperated, as they are good layered in combination.
So far so good. I follow the manual, and copy the folder-structure into the project audio file on the flash memory card. The samples are still organized.
However, when im going to use them, i need to move them over to a “static” or “flex” machine. Each of them have 128 slots i can choose from. This is were it all falls apart for me.
Here i need to move the samples i want to use from my neatly organized folder-structure, to the 128 random (static og flex) slots. This basically means that im moving the samples from order and structure to kaos. The way I see it, I might as well just keep my samples in one random folder in the first place.
My question here is;
Is there a way to keep the folder organization in the Octatrack- machine-system? Is there a way i can say; on track nr 1 i will have all my real kicks, on track nr 2 i will have all my techno kicks, and on track nr 3 i will have all my loops? Without mixing the sample-types together? The audio pool system so far seems very strange to me.
You definitely need to read Merlin’s guide on understanding the octatrack.
Have you looked into sample chains?
If you make sample chains out of your various elements it will allow you to load the chained sample to one slot/machine and have access to you multiple kicks/ loops from each track/machine.
Also one thing I noticed early on was the octatrack only recognizes 99 files in a folder. Any more than that and they sit there, invisible to the octatrack.
Good luck!
As the first reply says sample chains but what I also do is have a filename method too so I always can recall what I am using for ex:
Synth/type/noterange/patchno/parameter
so an ultranova chain of a patch:
UNPadC3C6C26.wav
TR8909BDDecay
this way whatever I am using has a unique name and I know whats being changed
Its a tr8 909 Bass drum and the chain has the decay parameter changed.
This helps me a lot and keeps everything structured within the folders so i have a ultranova folder a Moog folder a TR8 folder and so on.
It doesnt mean my way is the best I only can say that when I want a sample of a particular instrument or type I can find them easy and know what the chain actually is when I read the name.
I realize we all use our OTs in different ways, but since you say you are new to the OT I thought I should mention that I don’t understand why you would want to fill up your slots with lots and lots of samples. Like you, I keep mine neatly organized on the card and just load the samples when I want to use them. That means I’ll have one or two kicks in my slots. I do not understand why you would want to have all of them there.
That said, it might make sense, just not for my way of thinking/working.
No i have not, but im very interested now.!!
By sample chain, you mean just a long sample containing all ie. kick sound, and the slice them up on the Octatrack?
Thanks for the Merlin manual tip… Exactly what i needed
@thatguy I think you confuse two different things :
the physical place where your samples is. You have a nice organization, with folders and all : keep it
You may use sample chains, it’s a very good way of handling samples.
the list of samples used in your project. Ot more precisely, ht elist of links towards the samples. These links are called slots, and you may use up to 128 slots in your project.
As I said, see it as a list of links.
Say slot 1 points on /Set 1/folder A/mysample.aif
The slot doesn’t change the physical organization of the samples.
If it’s a FLEX slot, the sample is copied in OT memory to be waxed, if it’s STATIC then it’s the sample from the memory card that is directly used.
But on the organization side, nothing has changed.
Note that if you move some samples, the slot that points on a sample that was moved will not find the sample anymore : you will have to update the slot/link.
Ok i think i understand how its organized. However, I dont think its a good idea i pracsis, cause this means that i need to decide what samples to use before start the session. I want to be able to explore freely, within the limits of my concept (sound)
I think the sample chain thing might help me here. The way i understand it, I can make a sample file containing all real kick drums, a sample file containing all techno kicks drums, and load them in two of these slots. Then, by using the sliceing function, i can make them available for experimentation on different tracks, and easily switch sample sound within the sample style i have set for the file.
Am i correct? From a user perspective, all i want is easy access to my favorite samples all the time, but not “all at the same time”. One of the worst things i spend my time on is searching loooong libraries with too many sounds i dont know. Hence the categorization.
But again, why load them into the slots? You say you want “easy access to your favourite samples all the time”. The samples are already right there on your card, organized as you want them. Load the one you want to a slot when you actually want to use it. If you then want to use a different kick instead, just load that to that slot instead.
I’m not trying to be difficult, but it sounds like you are thinking of your slots as your library. You might find that things make more sense if you think of the files on your card as your sample library and the slots for the “active” samples currently in use.
But yes, sample chains are useful. I organize complete drum kits as sample chains, for instance. So if I want, say, a 808 kit, I just load one file to a slot.
But again, why load them into the slots? You say you want “easy access to your favourite samples all the time”. The samples are already right there on your card, organized as you want them. Load the one you want to a slot when you actually want to use it. If you then want to use a different kick instead, just load that to that slot instead.
I’m not trying to be difficult, but it sounds like you are thinking of your slots as your library. You might find that things make more sense if you think of the files on your card as your sample library and the slots for the “active” samples currently in use.
But yes, sample chains are useful. I organize complete drum kits as sample chains, for instance. So if I want, say, a 808 kit, I just load one file to a slot.[/quote]
Hey Abhot
I am thinking of the slots as a library, mainly because i would like them to be a library…
The problem with the slots solution is that I have to decide what samples to use, before you put them in a list. I.e, i need to take 10 of my real kick samples, and 10 of my techno samples, and put them in the same list. But i dont want to decide what combo of samples to mix before i use them, and i dont want all the samples to appear in the same list. I want to assign my real kicks to track 1, and push “next” until i find the one i like. Then i want to do the same on track 2 and track 3, without suddenly having a snare and hihat sample showing up in between…Order! is a bliss:)
@thatguy I don’t think you still get it, no offense.
Maybe Abhoth’s words are clearer than mine
So : when you need a sample to go in a precise track of the OT, you
set this track to be let’s say a FLEX
then you go and look for your sample in the slot list. If it’s there, it’s cool, just select it.
If it’s not there, then you will have to “activate” your sample in the project, so -> right arrow, you fetch your sample in your neat file organization, it’s “activated” once displayed as a slot.
You select it, it’s done.
You can further edit it, mess with it, slice it, and save these settings for this slot, so that next time you use this slot, your work is already done.
Is this clearer in you mind ?
Note : it’s cool to have several kicks in a sample chain to get more variation in your beat. But with only one-shot sample you can already have much variations with the filters, chromatic variations, effects, etc.
So my 2 cts : maybe try to spend not too much time creating your neat sample-chains and just grab some that are already done : this way you can really dedicate your time to actually use the OT and come back later on this matter ^^
OT is deep, I think there’s no need to make it deeper when you just begin to use it
[quote=“Abhoth”][quote=“thatguy”]Am i correct? From a user perspective, all i want is easy access to my favorite samples all the time, but not “all at the same time”. One of the worst things i spend my time on is searching loooong libraries with too many sounds i dont know. Hence the categorization.
[/quote]
But again, why load them into the slots? You say you want “easy access to your favourite samples all the time”. The samples are already right there on your card, organized as you want them. Load the one you want to a slot when you actually want to use it. If you then want to use a different kick instead, just load that to that slot instead.
I’m not trying to be difficult, but it sounds like you are thinking of your slots as your library. You might find that things make more sense if you think of the files on your card as your sample library and the slots for the “active” samples currently in use.
But yes, sample chains are useful. I organize complete drum kits as sample chains, for instance. So if I want, say, a 808 kit, I just load one file to a slot.[/quote]
Hey Abhot
I am thinking of the slots as a library, mainly because i would like them to be a library…
The problem with the slots solution is that I have to decide what samples to use, before you put them in a list. I.e, i need to take 10 of my real kick samples, and 10 of my techno samples, and put them in the same list. But i dont want to decide what combo of samples to mix before i use them, and i dont want all the samples to appear in the same list. I want to assign my real kicks to track 1, and push “next” until i find the one i like. Then i want to do the same on track 2 and track 3, without suddenly having a snare and hihat sample showing up in between…Order! is a bliss:)
[/quote]
Another thing that might work for you without making sample chains is loading the first sample of your folder to your desired slot. In the slots list function + right arrow will load the next sample in the folder. So you can scroll through all the samples in your folder and select which one you want.
Hey again…
I think i get how the Ot work from a technical perspective, but im trying to get around that from a user perspective… Its not always tech and human behavior co-relate:) This is important for my workflow
I created a project, and loaded 100 of the 100 kick samples to 100 slots in a flex machine. Now i have 100 samples available. I dont know which one i will use yet, but i will find this out later when im experimenting
Now i want to find the right snare. Lets say i have 100 snares in a similar pack. I have these neatly organized in a different folder on the flash card
I choose a new track, and load each of the 100 snares to 100 slots on a static machine(just because i can)
Now i have one list with snares, and one list with kicks. So far so good.
-However now i want to add some hihats, some tom samples, and some loops as well.
Here also i dont know which ones i want to use yet, but i have 100 to choose from. I load them on top of the others in the slot lists.
Now i have kaos, at least if i keep these going for all the 8 tracks. For 1, i have too many samples in a list. I dont want that many options in the same time. 2, Its difficult to browse and find the right samples, because all types of samples are bundled together in one long list.
I can of course work with this, but it would be so much better to keep the folder logic, also in the slot list
I understand your point, extracting the sample directly from the card into your music. However OT needs the samples to be assigned to a slot in order to use in the music.
But I must say i find this structure quite handy, especially while working on multiple songs on Project basis, i like to see it as a “fast access” section where i can access the sounds i recall. Especially handy on live performances.
And it is quite easy to access to your neat directories and wander around the over a track slot with a single button. <3
@thatguy, the workflow that starts with loading 100 slots with samples is wrong IMO. I mean : it’s pointless and time-eating. At least when you’re still discovering the OT. It’s not a judgment, I’ve just been through this already ^^
Plus you just cannot load 300 samples into the sample slots list.
It’s limited to 128, it isn’t meant to work like this.
When you need a kick sample, you just look load one slot with the kick you need.
While loading, you can test any sample with Function+OK btw.
If you want big numbers, use sample chains for sure. But I think it’s not really interesting to fill the slot list with samples that are not used in the end. You get easily lost imho.
After all, what is the point of loading 100 slots with kicks you won’t use ?
The kicks are on the flash card, it’s already something.
If you really want a large number of kicks to be available once for all, then choose the 64 best ones and create an evenly spaced sample chain.
In the slice editor, you can instantly slice it in 64, 32, 16, 12, 8, 6, 4 (if I remember correctly). That’s why I say 64.
100 is not a good number because you would have to slice the sample by hand.
But I really think you shouldn’t take too much time on feeding the OT. There are plenty of things to discover before getting deeper into this, you’re not really helping yourself…
^^
Grab a simple kick, a snare, and just have fun with this already !
Alright guys. Thanks for feedback to all! In the end, i got a hell of a lot smarter from this thread, even if the result i wanted seems to be a bit “hacky”
Sounds like you’ve possibly been over-thinking things in some ways or coming at it from a confusing angle, glad to hear you’re making progress now.
Might help if you think of OT a lot like a Daw in this respect. When you start a session in ableton for example you wouldn’'t typically bring in to your project hundreds and hundreds of samples straight away. But Everything is always available in your ableton browser library and you just grab stuff when you want it. OT is the same (ignoring sample chains). The audio pool is like your computer hard drive sample library folder. And the flex/static slots are kind of like a place you throw only things that you’re pretty sure you’re going to use or experiment with in the current project. Similar to when you pull samples from browser in to ableton tracks. And if you want to audition all your different snares etc I find its often most effective to audition in real time in the context of a pattern/song. On OT you can do this. Just program a pattern and while it’s playing you can audition alternative samples from anywhere in your flex/static slots or entire audio pool. I suck at trying to explain stuff but hopefully you’ve already figured all this stuff out now anyway
P. S if you’ve not used ableton then I might have just confused uou even more! But the comparison I was making is valid with most daws.
