Optimizing a PC for audio

The Lounge Other Gear
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So I just jumped ship from the Mac world, after being in the Mac environment since 2007 for music production after my 2019 macbook pro just shut off one day and never turned back on, I took it to the Apple store and they told me it would be $800 and that they’d have to replace the logic board…I didn’t want to invest that into a 2019 computer that only had 16gb of ram baked into it. after that and the fact that all the new Macbooks are not user upgradable I didn’t want to spend $2000+ on a computer that may not give me the normal 7-8+ years I generally get out of them, So I decided to buy a beastly gaming PC and use that for music productmy ion, sound designing and audio editing needs and as a bonus I can use it for gaming too.

But I’ve been out of the PC world for so long it’s a little overwhelming to get back into it and start to think about potential options and customizations that are possible with a PC.

I’m doing a ton of research at the moment but I also wanted to throw it out there to you guys to see if you have any suggestions or advice for getting the most out of a PC for music produciton.
I have a Legion Pro 7 16IRX8H and a focusrite Scarlett 18i20 and I use Ableton.

My first question is about Asio…I have installed the drivers for my Scarlett 18i20 and that’s all fine and good however when I want to mess around with Ableton when I’m not in my studio and the audio interface is not connected it defaults to the MME/Direct X driver which has crazy lag…normally I’d think I’d use Asio4all but Ableton specifically warns against using Asio4all when you also have the scarlet drivers installed because apparently they clash.
So I was wondering what I could use for a driver when I want to use ableton on my laptop when I’m not connected to the focusrite scarlet, what do you guys think??
also any and all tips or resources on optimizing PCs for audio work would be greatly appreciated too while I’m setting things up.
Thanks
-Matt

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Stumbled on this recently, maybe you know all this stuff and it isn’t directly related to what you asked but might be useful.

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https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Both are good tools to help chase out potentially problematic drivers. The PDF that @darenager listed has a lot of solid information for PC optimization.

None of the above will help with the piss poor performance of MME/DirectX drivers. If you do audio work on the go quite often, I would invest in a small, portable interface like the bus powered MOTU M2 or M4. If you’re not keen on bus powered interfaces (I’m certainly not), you go go up to the M6 or find something with less I/O but with a PSU instead of bus power.

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You might check out Robin Vincent’s channel on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@MoltenMusicTech

He has a lot of videos about tweaking PCs for maximum audio performance.

Cheers!

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Made the mistake to think that a PC can replace a Mac for using Ableton. Got a 2500€ workstation PC and fully optimized it ( i am an IT Technician) to fully extent. But then the m1 MacBook Air for 900€ and only 8gigs of ram blew it away using Ableton and only draining 30 Watts :see_no_evil:! Never was happy with the PC because if you want to use it for audio you have to deactivate most of the network stuff drivers( it often causes the dropouts ) and still have DPC spikes from some system drivers :sweat_smile:

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If you use microphones - look into water cooling, because fans are annoying as all shit when tracking audio. Unless you make fancore in which case, fans.

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Since it’s a Lenovo, I would recommend wiping the drive and installing a fresh copy of Windows onto it. Lenovo ships their devices with a bunch of bloatware that can and will affect system latency.
You should also check UEFI/BIOS settings if there is something enabled or disabled that might be better to have the other way around.

ASIO4All is a stop-gap solution to avoid the horrible mess which is the Windows audio stack. Use the proper drivers for your interface to get the good kind of ASIO.

As mentioned above by d4ydream, download the DPC Latency checker and see what processes are particularly harmful for you. If you have an NVIDIA graphics card, that is most likely going to be one possible problem point. The Studio drivers might offer some help there, at least they did for me back when I was doing audio work on a Windows PC.
Wi-Fi is also going to be a possible pain point, particularly with Realtek drivers.

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NVIDIA is a real f*ck up for Audio. First thing i got rid of. Deactivating the Network and WiFi drivers is necessary too because they are the next big thing that messes with DPC Latency

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…how much did u spent on ur new top notch gaming pc laptop?..

sadly, ur last experience with apple laptops fell into this phase, when they did not produce reliable products the way as they’re used to…if u’d only waited a little longer back then, since m gen laptops are truu long lasting computers again, even given the fact, u have to choose upfront which config to stick with forever, u can trust and enjoy what u spent ur money on for years to come…
when i read ur questions about which driver installment conflicts with what and hell of latency lags when this and when that, u just remind me again, how good it feels, to just spent a little more money, but end of the day not at all and for real, in a machine and a system that just worx…

so, how much less money did u invest now…? 100, 200, 400 bux?
for endless headscratching and troubleshooting every once in a while again, because, don’t think, once it’s all fine and running properly, this will last forver, not to mention the high propbillity, u have to replace that very same machine within the next 3 years again, just to spent another 1500 bux at least…

the only other real option is a desktop pc running linux…there u can answer all the same questions at least just once and for all and be a happy user with that same config for years to come…
but when it comes to laptops, next time, consider a truu hi end product again…
good luck for now, since i really have no clue, what windows did lately to not support flawless artistic workflow again…

so only real advice i’m able to give, once it’s all running smoothly and u can really start enjoying ur workflow again, make a carbon copy of the whole system as it is, so u can just reinstall xactly that state with a wipe clean procedure, whenever the whole thing starts to let u down again…
but u can expand that cycle by just not surfing the net too much…
if u stay totally out of it, ur investment might even last 4 years…since lenovo is one of the better brands in the pc laptop segment…
but ur right, even considering that oh so huuge advantage of exachangeable components in first place, everbody likes to fall for, 4 years of a lifecycle means nothing but bad news in the whole windows pc consumer world…at least to buy a new computer, with the option of exchangeable parts again, of course, at least every two years is all, what makes the world a better place…

ps…the chances are damned high, that what caused ur mpb from 2019 to shut off completly is a fried motherboard caused by overcooked intel chip designs…since intel was still not producing the chips they promised/guaranteed the apple developers and all their next to come design aproaches years before…from 2015 to 2021, all apple laptops where not that good, just because of outdated intel chips…but those days are finally over…and great hw designs finally meets up with great inside engineering again…

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I’ve been, ehhh, let’s call it: “spending a lot of time” optimizing my pc’s for audio and in that proces I found that you can find excellent guides on that very subject from the companies that should know best. Simply Google: “optimize windows for audio”.

These two (or maybe even just one of them) should get you far:

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071469-Optimizing-Windows-for-Audio

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/360008589880-Windows-How-to-set-up-and-optimize-a-Digital-Audio-Workstation

Tuning a windows pc for audio can be a living nightmare.
I never did find out what was my initial problem. I did however learn a lot about windows. And I am now the lucky owner of a RME UFX soundcard and everything works. I’d rather pay good money for the best audio drivers on the market to avoid that hell I went through again.

Good luck!

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This one is worth a read as well:

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/windows-11-pc-optimization-for-recording/

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can definitely attest to this. have been using Macs for over 20 years and the only two major missteps I experienced were my 2017/18 MBP (the one with the Touch Bar) having a battery that expanded and warped the body of the machine and rendered it unusable after two years of use (Apple repaired/replaced it) and a 2019 i9 MBP where the fan noise was like a jet engine and as such was not fit for purpose. That experience with the i9 was the only time I ever considered maybe giving a Windows machine a chance, but am grateful that I held out for the M series to arrive shortly after. really cannot say enough good words for those, they are ridiculously good

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I agree on the Apple M-series laptops. I have a M1 MBP 16 inch and I’m very happy with it. Much easier to tune it for audio than on windows. It just works. Even the build soundcard is usable as is.
I don’t see myself buying a windows based laptop ever again, unless I need to use hard- or software that will on run on Windows.

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Not doubting anyone else’s experience in the slightest as there are so many variables with PCs but personally I don’t have many issues with Windows these days. RME interface though, which definitely helps.

It used to be that you’d have to really micromanage CPU power states etc. in both Windows and the BIOS but modern CPUs seem much better at throttling/boosting without causing issues.

One big thing that could possibly save a lot of frustration: make sure you go into device manager and disable the option that allows the computer to turn off USB hubs to save power. I just do it on all the hubs to be safe (and because I’m too lazy to figure out which hub is which!) That can often play havoc with USB interfaces. There’s a ‘USB selective suspend’ option in the power plan settings that should be off too.

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Yet another happy PC + RME guy here. I bought a pre-built desktop gaming computer marketed as being silent. I’m running Cubase on Win 10, have excellent performance without fan noise. No problems whatsoever.

I use both macs and PCs. My latest 3-4 Windows computers have worked really well. I’ve owned two macs during that same interval, and I’ve had problems with both of those. Random clicks regardless of CPU load, etc. So for what little it is worth, these days I prefer Windows PCs based on my (admittedly very limited) experiences. Partly because of the mac problems I’ve had, partly because of the way too frequent OS upgrades that seems to always break something important.

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I almost posted pretty much the same and then I remembered that there’s no way to tell Apple acolytes that.

:wink:

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In my 35 years in this business, working as a professional in all capacities, I’ve long-since come to the conclusion that some people just use and abuse gear in unreasonable ways.

I’ve worked on just about every kind of computer, both Mac and PC, using all the major brands and DAWs, and have neither had a truly exemplary or terrible experience on any of them. The job always gets done, and any problems encountered along the way would be considered acceptable, to be expected, and pretty much average out, from one system to the next.

Now, of course, as one might expect, the major studios that I’ve worked in have gone to great lengths to maximize the performance of their gear; and indeed, there are always problems to solve. But at the home-studio level, in my opinion, most issues are caused by user error, lofty expectations, budget gear, rogue software, and poor maintenance.

I’ve witnessed too many ham-fisted approaches to believe most of the disaster stories. On the other hand, I see miracles being performed daily, on subpar gear, by working professionals with the knowhow and objectivity to simply make it happen.

Cheers!

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I’m glad someone did this topic. My little bit of experience is just that, an experience. I have a custom desktop AMD Rysen7 machine, that has been amazing. Works great with my RME Babyface. Flawless. I can add as much extra memory as I need. The RME makes it very low latency. Great box.
Prt2- My old dualcore e-waste laptop started to finally crap out after 3 years, so I decided to look for a new PC laptop. Went to the big box store and bought a new fully spec’d gaming laptop. Brought it home, installed Bitwig and there was serious latency. Terrible. I tried to install ASIOforall and for some reason it wasn’t working. Since it was a gaming laptop it was also extremely heavy…so, I took it back the next day and bought another high spec’d laptop, I think it was a Samsung. I loved the feel of it. It had a OLED screen and it actually kind of reminded me of a Macbook Pro. Took that home, installed Bitwig on it. Same thing. Hella latency just using the qwerty keyboard, ASIO didn’t work. Come to find out, most Windows laptops use this crappy built-in soundcard. I tried changing the settings on Bitwig, nothing worked. Took it back the next day.
Conclusion- I ended up getting a Macbook Air M2 on sale. It was still 500 bucks more than the windows machines, but once I installed Bitwig on it there was very little latency out of the box (meaning playing keys on the qwerty keys) …and the build quality is unbeatable. None of the windows laptops were as well designed. All of them felt like my old ewaste laptops, but a new version. I’m not sure I really cared if they were beautiful, but I really wanted my laptop to be like my instrument when out of my house. Having to figure out latency on a 1000 dollar product i was unreasonable. I don’t want to waste time on that stuff.
Now I have both a windows box and a Mac laptop. I’m slowly moving off the Windows machine because the Mac is much faster and I might as well. I hope your experience is different and you can make the Windows laptop work for you. I don’t know what was up with ASIO, but I just didn’t feel like dealing with a secondary hack to make my situation work for me. If there were a Windows laptop with a better builtin sound card, I would be using a Windows laptop. To me the OS’s are just a vehicle to get me to the internet and music.
If you really want a tight flawless workstation (I think others have mentioned this), get a proper soundcard like an RME. There are others that can match it’s performance, but the only one I have experience with is RME.

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If your PC runs cool and quiet and can handle your workload, any decent sound card should work, although I prefer RME. Even the new Motu. Glitch Free - Cantabile - Software for Performing Musicians

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My 2 cents - If you plan on using a Windows laptop - a gaming laptop usually makes a good DAW. Make sure its Power Options aren’t limited - the power mode ‘Ultimate Performance’ should be available (many of the smaller laptops don’t support this mode). And find a review where they test the DPC latency - Xotic PC does.

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