Octatrack: The Arranger and One-Shot Trigs

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

New OT user here. Very deep, very deep… I’m preparing for a gig next weekend. I am trying to setup for long backing tracks, a couple of Neighbor Machines, a couple Flex Machines, one Thru and Master on Track 8.

So far so good.

I’ve set up my Patterns A01-A09 for a nine song set. The Tracks that have the long backing tracks are on Static Machines with one-shot trigs. I’ve then got an Arrangement playing with the Patterns, and they’re all the right length, but there’s a problem.

My Track Layout is like so:

Pattern A01:

T1 = Static Machine (“Song 01 File” with a one-shot trig)
T2 = Neighbor Machine
T3 = Static Machine (No Trig)
T4 = Neighbor Machine
T5 = Flex Machine (for 4X4 kick that I’ll unmute & mute when needed)
T6 = Flex Machine (for SFX, misc. samples)
T7 = Thru Machine (Live input external synth)
T8 = Master

Then, for Pattern A02, I will leave Track 1 un-trigged, and Track 3 will have the “Song 02 File” with a one-shot trig to launch it. Then on Pattern A03, I’ll go back to Track 1 and trig “Song 03 File” and go back and forth between Track 1 and Track 3 holding the long song files so they don’t cut each other off in the Arranger - this way, Song 1 can overlap a little with Song 2, etc.

All good so far, but when the Arranger gets to play Pattern 3, the one-shot trig is unarmed. It’s like Pattern A01 plays, and the one-shot trigs for Track 1 are burned for all the Patterns in the project? I’ve been trying various workaround on this, but can’t quite find the solution.

Assume I’m new to the OT (because I am) — is there a workaround for this, and if so, how?

#2

Did you try FIRST Trig Conditions ?
I think that’s the best workaround, since 1.30 OS release.

Otherwise, arming when needed, use one shots on several tracks, or don’t use one shots but regular trigs, one pattern with a trig followed by several other patterns without retrigging…

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#3

Hi - thank you for the reply. 1st Trig Conditions… I’m not familiar with that, but will seek it out in the manual. Thank you for the suggestion!

#4

From manual :

1ST is only true the first time the pattern play (when looped).

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#5

Hey, this seems to work! I want to thank you so much for the tip. Saved the day, literally.

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#6

I would have been more complicated before TR Conditions, available since November 2017 IIRC ! :wink:

#7

I believe it’s all working now as expected - thanks again!

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#8

Let me ask a follow-up.

Given the above track configuration for my patterns, the actual samples are very long - like song-length. Given that the arranger can only hold 512 steps per row, what’s the best practice for setting up an arrangement for 9 songs at an hour’s length?

I tried setting the Pattern scale mode to “per track” instead of normal, and then set the pattern master scaling to x1/8 and then the other tracks to different settings, so I could still trigger parts on the flex machines that need more than a half-note resolution per step.

But, the arranger seems to have problems with this. For some reason after the third pattern (third song) the whole thing keeps playing - meaning the rows fire off when the should but there is no audio after pattern 3 plays. Pattern 4 starts in the arranger, but no sound plays, this continues if I leave the arranger playing. Pattern 5, etc. They all play when they should, just silent.

If I stop the arrangement, and cursor down to Pattern 4, it will play fine, in fact they all play fine if I go to their respective rows and play them, but starting from the top, when the scale mode is “per track” there is trouble.

If I keep the pattern scale mode to “normal” and turn all of the pattern scaling to x1/8, everything appears to work as far as the arranger goes, but really, the Flex machines then aren’t any use for me in this specific instance. (No 4x4 kick or percussion, etc.)

Is there a better way?

#9

I don’t understand what’s the problem.
Could you explain it differently?
I don’t know why you’d have to change scale setup.
You can have several times the same pattern…
:coffee:

#10

This can help too.

START SILENT controls whether the track of a previous pattern linked to a different part should keep on sounding or not when the currently active pattern starts playing. Three settings exist. Select between them using the LEVEL knob.

• AUTO will make the chosen track act according to the SILENCE TRACKS setting made in the PROJECT menu. Read more about this setting in section “8.6.3 SEQUENCER” on page 36.

• NO will make the track from a previous pattern linked to a different part continue to sound when the currently active pattern starts playing. The track of the previous pattern will however stop sounding once a trig on the track of the active pattern is activated by the sequencer. If for example track 1 is the chosen track, then track 1 of the previous pattern will continue to sound until a trig occurs on track 1 of the currently active pattern. This setting overrides the SILENCE TRACKS setting.

• YES will make the track of a previous pattern linked to a different part stop making sound once the currently active pattern starts playing. If for example track 1 is the chosen track, then the sample of track 1 of the previous pattern will enter its release phase, set in the AMP menu, once the currently active pattern starts playing. This setting overrides the SILENCE TRACKS setting.

#11

Hi - thank you. I’m jumping into a session now, but will get you some details on the problem.

The short version is this, say in the Arranger, I’m sequencing 9 Patterns (A01-A09) which are containing samples of 9 full-length songs.

Pattern 1 plays in the Arranger and I want Pattern 2 to start at bar 158 so they stay in time and crossfade a little. Since the length in the Arranger can only go to 512, (and I’d need 2528 steps at 1x Scale to get there) and since Repeats have a limit of 64, how do you get things to work out in this case where the target (where you want the next track to start) isn’t easily divisible by 16?

That’s why I started looking into the Pattern Scaling, and it does seem to work up until Pattern A04 starts, and then everything keeps running but the tracks go silent for some reason. Again, I can manually trigger the rows and they’ll play fine, but something happens when I start from the beginning of the Arrangement.

I’ve only been at this for about a week, so could be missing some very obvious things. Thank you again for all the help - invaluable.

EDIT:

My Track Setup is like this, if it’s relevant info:

TRACK 1 = STATIC
For Songs & Patterns 1,3,5,7,9

TRACK 2 = NEIGHBOR
For more FX for Track 1

TRACK 3 = STATIC
For Songs & Patterns 2,4,6,8

TRACK 4 = NEIGHBOR
For more FX for Track 3

TRACK 5 = FLEX
4/4 Kick drum + Percussion.

TRACK 6 = FLEX
I was going to sample-lock various samples per pattern, so one song might have SFX (Spaceport Ambience) one might have a snatch of vocal.

TRACK 7 = THRU
Mixing in an External Synth.

TRACK 8 = MASTER
EQ & Compressor then out to house mixer, PA and radio livestream.

#12

With more patterns ?

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#13

Are you definitely rearming those one shots? They deactivate when just one has played

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#14

Hi Clancy. Per sezare56’s instruction, I’m using normal trigs with 1st trig conditions instead of one-shots now.

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#15

Yes, was thinking to use dummy patterns, or repeats + a remainder pattern, whichever is easier math. Is this the best way to get there?

The weird thing I still don’t understand is, using per-track scaling in the patterns, keeping the pattern’s master scale at x1/8 and then using different scaling settings for different tracks… why does this only work for the first three pattern rows in the Arrangement, and then everything goes silent after Pattern 3 plays?

If I keep everything “normal” at x1/8, then everything seems to work, but I lose sequencer resolution. It seems an odd issue. I’m looking for my own errors but not finding any, and again, they all fire off fine in the arranger on their own, but cease to make sound at a certain point when starting from the top. Have you seen this behavior or have any idea why this might be happening?

#16

Can’t tell without testing…

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#17

You should be able to use different patterns… Probably don’t need per track scaling if just using long samples…

Make sure the global silence tracks option is not on and then check pattern settings of the pattern that cuts off and make sure it’s not overriden for any tracks with a start silent=yes, set to no or use auto to follow global setting…

The behavior for per track len in arranger is in the manual:

But again you probably don’t need per track, I admit I haven’t tried to wrap my head around your entire situation, but with silence tracks and start silent off samples will play to the end through any pattern changes as long as there’s no trigs on the same number track they are playing on, check that too…
Should be able to work something out…

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#18

Okay I had a look at this where I stripped out everything to narrow it down (no neighbours, no tracks apart from the two to trigger backing samples, no arranger even)

Edit: oh and short samples, so this isn’t even about the logistics of long backing tracks

This is what I found:

Conditional “1st” trigs do NOT trig as expected IF the scale mode is ‘per track’ and the master multiplier is 1/2 or less

The trig on the first pattern you play works okay, but not any pattern switched to after that

Looks like a bug, unless there’s some logic to it that i can’t see

(It also doesn’t matter what step the trig is on, or if there are several)

5 Likes
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#19

And - it’s the master multiplier on the pattern you switch FROM that causes the problem, not the settings on the ‘silent’ pattern

And - normal trigs work okay, as do conditional % trigs. Haven’t tried other types

Haven’t tried individual track multipliers, just masters

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#20

Wow. I am so grateful for all the help. You can imagine stress as this show looms. I’m jumping into a session now (mastering) but will double-back tonight and read closely the new posts and sort this out!

In some small token of gratitude, I also run a small electronic music label, and if anybody who’s helped here would like some download codes, just PM me for which album or albums you’d like and I’ll make it happen. I’m aware and appreciative of the time put in here.

I’ll report back findings after I can read some of this and put it into action. Thank you.

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