Octatrack & Model Samples

Elektron Gear
#1

Hi,
My M:S landed today. I purchased it to use as a synced drum machine to my mk2 octatrack. I thought I had a decent enough grasp of the octa flow, have made an album on it etc… But.
How the hell does the M:S sync up with the octa properly please?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but here goes…

  1. If I’ve got this right the only way to change patterns on m:s is by using a new part?

  2. The m:s is always 1 page behind the octa track when you do ask it to change a pattern. What am I doing wrong? It’s like there’s a lag

  3. What’s correct way to change a pattern and bank for the m:s via the octatrack? The numbers on the program and bank change don’t seem to have any logic behind them. I figured bank A / pattern 1 would = bank 1 / program 1 on the octatrack.

Thanks for your time and input. Was really looking forward to putting these 2 together.

Tom

M:S 1 bar behind when syncing
#2

No, you can set the OT to send a Program Change message to the M:S whenever it changes pattern, not just when moving to a pattern linked to another part.

The correct way is to use MIDI Program Change messages. There is an obvious logic to the numbers:
Patterns A01 to A16 on the OT correspond to A01 to A16 on the M:S.
Patterns B01 to B16 on the OT correspond to B01 to B16 on the M:S.
… and so on until …
Patterns F01 to F16 on the OT correspond to F01 to F16 on the M:S.

(Also banks I to P on the OT also correspond to banks A to F on the M:S.)

There is no need to use the Bank parameter on the OT: it will have no effect.

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#3

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I’m Well and truly lost now… so I’m just going to swallow my pride and ask.
how to send program change messages without the need for a new part please? I guess the way I was hoping it would work would be that I have say 5 variants of a drum pattern on the m:s that sit on patterns A1 - A5
Then as the I build my track on the octatrack I simply tell it for example that on pattern 6 on the octatrack use pattern ‘A3’ from the ms then pattern 7 use ‘A5’ etc etc.

If I use the pch on the octa which requires a new part to make the ms switch the ms takes an additional 16 steps / 1 bar to change which actually as it stands right now renders the ms useless.

Thanks again for your time. Appreciate you’ve probably heard all this before.

Tom

#4

For pattern changes you can use that page :
MIDI > SYNC > Prog Change Send. Choose a specific channel, not AUTO.
It also solves this lag problem, because the Prog Change is sent just before the beginning of the new pattern.

Midi tracks Midi Note Setup page Prog Change is more appropriate for synths patch changes.
In that case, the Prog Change is sent after the beginning of the new pattern.

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#5

Awesome thanks for the reply Sezare. Will jump on this in a few hours. So I guess the following question to that is… I follow your instructions above. I don’t use the
‘midi channel selection, bank, pch’ page
How do I tell the octa to instruct the m:s to play pattern 5 whilst the octa is playing pattern 1? For example?

Thanks again. Really appreciate the time you folks have taken to write this.

#6

In this case, you cannot. The automatic method of sending Program Change messages simply sends the number corresponding to the pattern that the OT is switching to. You can only send these arbitrary Program Change messages by changing parts.

The workaround is to line up your pattern numbers in both instruments so that pattern A05 on one corresponds to pattern A05 on the other.

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#7

Ah I deleted my post.
Or, use a midi processor to map a midi CC to a Prog Change. :pl:

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#8

Oh balls.
So I wasn’t being thick then (good to know)

OK just to be clear the automatic way as you put it is basically the M:S mirroring the octatrack pattern for pattern.

The “manual” way is to use a program per part. Which I couldefinitely live with but… Is there any way to avoid the 1 bar lag? It basically renders the M:S useless if this is the case as the ms will always be 1 bar behind the octatrack.

Now I’m pretty bummed. The idea was to use the ms to take to work etc to build drum patterns then as soon as I get home just tell the octatrack to use pattern 6 then pattern 3 etc etc.

Again thanks.

#9

So the workarounds are to:

  • use the 1:1 method of matching pattern numbers on both units,
  • use an external MIDI processor to translate the differing pattern numbers, or
  • sample your M:S pattern into the OT when you get home.
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#10

https://youtu.be/WWodNmHqJ60

Picture paints a thousand words and all that. Here’s a video of it not even doing the “automatic” method. So I’m back where I started :joy:

Cheers guys.

#11

Apparently this is a well known problem…
Well that was 2 days wasted. Wonder if they’ll fix it :neutral_face: just bought a paperweight otherwise.

#12

What is the well known problem?
What are your MS Scale Menu settings?

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#13

I think the Octatrack Auto channel is by default 11, so using that as your PCH is possibly why it didn’t work for you. Do Auto 11 for both machines, and try using 9 for PCH on both. This should solve the “1:1 auto” in your video.

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#14

I don’t think using any specific channel can be a problem, as long as the channel is the same on both machines. It can be 11 even if Auto Channel is set to 11 on OT.

BTW, on Octatrack, Midi > Sync > Prog Ch > AUTO setting is not Auto Channel. Confusing!

If AUTO is chosen the first MIDI channel used by the audio tracks, and not used by any of the MIDI tracks

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#15

I just have a feeling that could be what happened from the video. I know it doesn’t matter the channel as long as they are the same. Scale is also a possibility. But I broke out my Octatrack after not using for many moons because I’ve heard others mention the same problem, and I was able to do what you and @PeterHanes mentioned with M:C and had no issue.

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#16

What’s happening in the video I posted chief.

So basically. Regardless of what the octatrack is telling the m:s, the m:s won’t change until it has played through it’s full pattern. Say you have
octatrack, pattern 1 = 1 bar
Model samples, pattern 1 = 2 bars

The model won’t follow the octa until 2 bars have been played.

Kpucski cheers for trying it out. Does your the octa make the m:c move on regardless of the pattern length of the m:c

Cheers folks

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#17

So what are your Scale settings?
Do your patterns have equal length on OT and atterns on OT and MS ?
Is it also laggy with manual pattern change? (without pattern chain)

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#18

1:1 patterns same length.

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#19

Ah ok I missed that. Different lengths.
I don’t know what you’d like to do musically, but I guess there are solutions. I’d use same length for sure, eventually make a virtually longer pattern with trig conditions.

I don’t know if this MS Scale parameter would help.

CHG Change controls for how long the active pattern plays before it loops or a cued (the next selected) pattern begins to play. If CHG is set to 64, the pattern behaves like a pattern consisting of 64 steps regarding cueing and chaining. If CHG is set to OFF, the default change length is INF (infinite) in TRACK mode and the same value as LEN in PATTERN mode.

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#20

Yeah I’ve had a mess with them mate thanks. It would seem that I’ll have to make longer patterns at work etc then trim them down at home on the fly. I
I’ll sit down and have another play with the midi program changes tomorrow.

Your time is very much appreciated.

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