Don’t worry, I am not going to post another “Octrack vs X vs X” thread but I need some help to take a decision. I couldn’t find anything that could help me…
Some context : I am a techno ( mostly “Detroit” Techno) producer who stopped producing for a few years (having 2 baby kids is time comsuming) but I am looking forward producing again.
I fell in love with the Elektron Octatrack while watching some Mark Broom’s videos and I plan to change my way of producing. I was mostly working in my DAW; having a almost completly digital setup.
Ableton Live
Akai APC 40
Roland TR8 (not the TR8-S)
Maschine MK1
Roland TB-303
All the synth stuff was made using VSTs. (They cost me money and I can’t sell them so I think I’ll keep them)
As I have a really small budget to change this setup I want to sell most of my stuff and get rid of the Akai APC, Roland TR8, Maschine MK1. (and Keep the TB-303)
Regarding this, here comes the question :
I will keep a “PC” part for VSTs (and probably keep using Ableton for the arrangement) but I am looking for a hardware sequencer and sampler.
I am also planning to make live acts.
What would you recommend me ?
My first choice is the Elektron Octatrack but it’s also the most expensive one. Regarding my setup, is the lack of DAW integration a problem?
The AKAI Force is a bit cheaper than the Octratrack but I read nice things about it. I also think the latests upgrade brings more possibilities with the crossfader but I am not sure it can compete with the Octatrack.
Also, do you think getting rid of the Roland TR8 and using only the sampler/sequencer as a groovebox is a good idea?
This was me, and also coming from the same “Detroit” techno background.
Didn’t work out for me getting an Octatrack for this purpose. I went off on all kinds of musical tangents, which was great, but i honestly missed the more standard/traditional ways of doing things. So i got a Force & enjoyed myself even more.
In the end though i sold the Force & got another Mpc Live. I do miss the Force, from a performative aspect, but i’m good with the Live due to it’s connectivity (6 outs, phono inputs).
I’ve always had a bit of a love hate relationship with Elektron devices. Love what they do, hate how you go about doing it. From my experience, i’ve always preferred to add an Elektron device, to the Mpc/Force/One. Main bulk of the tracks with Mpc, and special sauce with an Elektron box.
An Mpc/Force with an OT or DT is a perfect setup. But i believe you can get more production mileage out of the Akai’s, if you had to choose just one.
I think it depends on what you are looking to do with it.
I have both (although I’ve only had the Force for a few weeks now).
Short answer: the OT is really an performance oriented machine that feels like an instrument. The Force is - like others have rightly described before - more like a DAW in a box.
Performance wise, the Force feels less immediate to me, but technically the Force can do (almost) everything the OT can do. It even has the crossfader.
The Force has far more capabilities as a full production machine. That said, in the right hands, the OT is all you ever need to create fantastic music. Plus, if you don’t have any other Elektron boxes, the OT is worth it for the Elektron sequencer alone.
Normally, i would say the OT for performance, the Force for production and as brains of the studio.
However, since you are asking about DAW/Ableton integration, the Force is the clear winner here. Yes, there are ways to integrate your OT into a DAW based workflow, but it is a hassle whereas the Force was designed for it. You will also feel right at home on the machine coming from Ableton. It has the same clip based workflow, and that is fantastic for all things techno.
I think OT is best thought of as a performance device, it can easily do production but that isn’t where it excels. Lots of notable techno producers swear by the OT for good reason.
Force/MPC is more like DAW experience but without needing to use a desktop/laptop computer, if you are happy with and comfortable with Ableton then you might like the Force or you might find it a bit too much overlap.
I don’t use a DAW and would not use a Force or MPC if I wanted to sync hardware devices to them, because just like a DAW they have terrible midi clock jitter, so if you might want to do that then bear it in mind.
I have a MPC One and it is ok, but I think that the fx and synths (which are same as Force) are ok but not really what I’d choose for techno, but then I have other gear more suited to that, not to say they are bad though, by any means.
…where ever ur new start will take u, end of the day, u gonna need ur itb setup for sure., still and no matter what…
if that tb303 is actually an original tb 303, THAT damned thing can easily be replaced by something way cheaper, while it’s the only piece of gear, u still get a decent amount of money for…
some people like the force…while many others hate it…
hardware has one big advantage, compared to itb…the higher level of happy accidents and lucky dips, that can push away any kind of writing block and keep the whole process beeing a fun thing…
and the highest surprise, wondering and let’s try this and that level of all machines i’ve ever touched is the ot…a mk1 version can be urs around 600 bux…
selling ur original 303 would cover easily some good 303 clone, some micromonsta or other small hardware synth plus a used ot…
which would be a nice killer setup in hardware…
forget about ot’s limitations when it comes to computer connections…
u can harvest all it’s magic with ordinary recording takes…
and all what u harvest with from ur hardware must end up in some daw arrangement anyways again, if u really want proper final mix results…
which than can be the backbone for any live action with ur ot again…easy.
while all that realtime stem streaming remains still a only half fulfilled promise when it comes to akai solutions…
Thank you all for these comments which are all realy helpfull. (Even if I still can’t make a choice yet )
@reeloy : I would have sold the TB303 if it was mine (and bought a Berhinger clone or something similiar), but I am unfortunatly not the owner of this vintage beast… It didn’t leave my studio for almost 10 years and will probably stay here but I can’t sell it
Do you guys know any other device (or combination of devices) that could be cheaper and do the job ? (There is nothing like an OT so I know that wouldn’t be the same, for sure)
About buying an “old” OT or a MK1 : I’m not comfortable with buying second-hand equipment even I read everywhere OT are build like tanks and won’t have any issue. I think I would rather and save money for a new one…
Btw, do you guys think it’s a good idea to sell the TR8 if I get an OT or a Force ? Would it still be usefull or fully replaced by 909 samples sequenced in the OT/Force?
The TR8s is really a blast to play, very immediate. That said, both the Force and the OT are very capable of replacing it in the sense that they can do the same and more (although the OT doesn’t have any synthesis capabilities beyond granular and single cycle waveform stuff)
Another all in one device that is great for techno is the MC707, unless you want to play long sets on it (switching projects isn’t seamless)
That said, it sounds like you have some more research to do. Both in terms of what you exactly want out of a machine, what areas you could make sacrifices in and and what you are willing to spend.
If you decide to look around a bit more, I would urge you to consider the Digitakt as it is an amazing machine for techno. Not a sampler in the traditional sense, but for me personally the most immediate and rewarding Elektron box (next to the DN) at the right price point.
I hope you find the right machine and that you can start making music again soon. That is way more rewarding then endless gear searches
Personally, I would keep the TR-8. You probably wouldn’t get very much money for it and it’s such a playable machine that has all the classic techno drum sounds with a nice knobby interface.
It’s also nice to free up OT tracks for other things besides drums. If you use track 8 as a master track, another one as a flex track for live sampling/transitions, and one more as a thru track for the 303, you’re down to 5 tracks remaining.
Just to let you guys know : I finally choosed the Force but I added an Analog Four to the setup. I get rid of every other piece of gear I owned and also bought a TD-3 (a new one for 60 bucks on Amazon was something I couldn’t miss).
I now have a DAWless setup (with the Force being able to work as a DAW) but I also benefit from the Elektron stuff with the Analog Four MK2.
I still have to get everything working together but that’s pretty exciting.
But, that being said, I am really happy with the choice I made. Regarding my needs, it was a good idea to start with the Force but I still keep the OT somewhere in my head
First I will keep playing with Force+A4 for a few months and I’ll see if something is missing.
Now I still have to figure out how to connect the Force and the A4; what would you guys think ?
The Force is able to work as an audio interface since its latest update but I don’t know if anyone already tried to connect both of them using audio USB ? If I can get separeted channels for all the A4 voices that would be really amazing.
(I just unpacked the A4 and couldn’t power it yet tbh)
I think from memory you’re out of luck there because the Elektrons run at 48khz and the Akai only works with 44 (assuming you have an A4 mk2 - the mk1 doesn’t have class compliant audio over USB, so even more of a non-starter). But you can still get a lot of mileage by syncing them and sampling normally, and don’t forget the A4 now has MIDI sequencing, so you can let that loose on the Force to supplement its own more traditional methods. The A4’s sequencing alongside the Force’s macros would make for an incredibly deep setup. And you’ve also got the separate outputs on the Force, so you can send some samples/tracks out for processing on the A4. Good times!
I didn’t know about this limitation (48 vs 44); that’s a bid sad. (There isn’t any way to “force” (hum) the A4 to run a lower rate ?)
I want the Force to be the master piece of my setup (as I plan to use it as a DAW but also for most of the drum parts of my tracks) so my plan was to use it as “master clock” and “plug” the A4 on it.
I know the A4 can be used for drums too but at this time I would like to use it for the synth parts only. I want to take advantage of its sequencing capbilities and not be “limited” by a “16 step quantized pattern”.
Regarding the fact I can’t use the “audio USB” feature, would this be the best way to connect them ?
A4 Audio Out -> Force Audio In (that means I won’t be able to separate the force voices on my force right ?)
A4 Midi Out -> Force Midi In (in case I need the A4 to sequence some tracks of the Force)
Force Audio Out -> A4 Audio In (in case I need to process some stuff from the Force in the A4)
Force Midi Out -> A4 Midi In (as I need the Force to be my master clock)
Does it make sense ? Do you see any better way to organize this ?
I think just try a few configs out and see what works for you. Without buying an intermediary device (ideally one of the USB mixers that are compatible with the Force, I guess), you’re limited to a regular audio connection as far as I’m aware - so no way to separate the four tracks from the master output, though you could route the individual outs into the Force.
Even a regular, small mixer can be useful here, as you could direct all the A4 outs into that and then choose what to send to the Force for sampling / recording. I use a pretty cheap Xenyx with a sub out, which is very convenient as I can just hit a button to send one or more channels to the Force.
In terms of audio routing I’d try something where the A4 is going into the Force as the main route, but where you can also send audio from the Force to the A4 using the aux outs - good for adding the A4’s filtering to Force samples, for example
You should be able to set up MIDI so that Force is the master but the A4 can also sequence parts of the Force - just a case of making sure the A4 is only sending what you need it to send. I’ll see if I can set up an arrangement to test this later - I haven’t done anything with just the Force and A4 yet, but the more I write about it the more I want to try it.
Without a mixer, you could send the TD-3 into the A4’s inputs and then on to the Force. MIDI thru from the A4 could provide clock - or you’ve got plenty of ways to send gate signals from the Force and the A4.
I was thinking about getting one but my budget is gone in the A4 and I couldn’t find any “cheap” USB mixer than could do the job. (a 8 channels one could be enough imo)
If you give it a try, please let me know the result
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